PODCAST TRANSCRIPTS

Are you feeling a bit disconnected from your love for teaching?

Today is the day to reignite the lost spark!

In this episode, I had the pleasure of chatting with Stephanie Haynes, an education consultant who specializes in helping educators reignite their love for teaching. We discussed how educators' feelings about their jobs directly impact their performance and the importance of addressing these feelings head-on.

We explored the concept of learned helplessness and how it can affect educators' sense of making a difference in the classroom.

Ready to reconnect with your love for teaching and reignite that passion within you?

Let's do this!


Stay empowered,

Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Stephanie:
Stephanie Haynes, ACC is an Education Coach and Consultant providing custom educational consulting and coaching for schools, educators, parents, and students that equips all stakeholders to empower teens to build a pathway to a future teens are excited to pursue. Specializing in classroom and school culture development and post-high school pathway planning, Stephanie’s vision is to break the mold of the one-size-fits-all post-high school planning process and revolutionize how schools, parents, and the community at large defines success for today's teens. Her decades of working with teens, educators, and parents has shown her how devastating the college-for-all mindset has been on today's youth. With only two culturally acceptable options: go to college and become successful or don't and limit your potential, Stephanie believes too many teens have been caught up in extreme anxiety and fear of not fitting into the mold, and apathy and withdrawal when they believe they can't. As a result, the potential and purpose of so many young people has been limited to the detriment of our communities. She is a veteran educator, speaker, coach, and author who is on mission to equip all stakeholders to empower today's teens to build a pathway to a successful future on their own terms they are excited to pursue. When she's not reimagining a culture of success with today's high schools, she balances her consulting career with her husband, two children, two rescue dogs, and spending time outdoors in all the nature South Carolina has to offer.
Connect with Stephanie:
Website: stephaniehaynes.net
Facebook: Stephanie Haynes
Instagram: @EdCoachStephHaynes

TRANSCRIPTS:  Jen Rafferty
Empowered educator started out as a small idea that I had in 2020. The pandemic made it abundantly clear that we need to take better care of the people who are taking care of our children. After all, the well being of a school is dependent on the well being of its educators. In just a few short years later, empowered educator is now reaching school communities all over the world. And through this journey, I've had the pleasure of meeting some incredible people who are aligned with that very idea, and who I also have the honor of interviewing on this podcast. I'm thrilled to introduce my next guest. And what will be the last episode of season two of Take Notes. Stephanie Haynes is an education coach and consultant who equips all stakeholders to empower teens to build a pathway to an exciting future, specializing in classroom and school cultural development and post high school pathway planning. Stephanie's vision is to break the mold of the one size fits all post high school planning process, and revolutionize how schools, parents and the community at large define success for today's teens. And we really had a blast as we talked, so I am thrilled to share this conversation with you. And thank you for listening to Take Notes. Season two has been incredibly exciting, and I cannot wait to come back for season three in the fall. So in the meantime, please leave a review on Apple podcasts because every review helps to take notes reach more educators and make a difference in the impact that we get to make. I am so grateful for your time and your talents and the work that you do in this world. Keep shining bright.

Jen Rafferty
Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching. Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world. Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now, because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away. But it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to The Take Notes Podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy, and fulfillment. This is education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work, and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee, and grab your notebook. It's time to take notes.

Jen Rafferty
Hi, Stephanie. Welcome to the show. And I am so glad that we have an opportunity to talk to each other again, thank you so much for being here.

Stephanie Haynes
Well, I really appreciate getting a chance to chat with you again, I so enjoy our conversation.

Jen Rafferty
Yes, yes same. So I just really want to dive in because you are also a consultant in the education space. And I want to talk a little bit about how you feel that the way that we feel about our jobs directly impacts our jobs and why that's so important to talk about, particularly with educators.

Stephanie Haynes
Well, yeah, if we are showing up every day to the classroom, feeling drained, feeling as if we're not appreciated, feeling overwhelmed, or feeling stressed dealing with any other kinds of things. It affects our performance in the classroom, as much as we try really hard to make sure it doesn't, it still does. And that I think is a disservice to us professionals. And it's not about whether or not we are doing a great job for the students, because we always will. We are professionals, we will show up. But it's how are we taking care of ourselves in the process that impacts everything else that we do, including our love of the profession, and we don't love what we do this job is extremely difficult. And so that's why I think it's important that we address all of those things about how we show up in the classroom.

Jen Rafferty
Yeah, and so I think that's something that's really important in my work. So many people have shared that they feel like they lost that love, they've lost that connection. And it's not something that you can just flip on a switch and be like, "Oh, I'm loving this job again", you know, this is a process. So how do you work with educators about reconnecting with their love for this profession? Because you're right, it gets very difficult if we don't have that there.

Stephanie Haynes
It does, it really does. You know, when an educator realizes that he or she is like, you know, I'm not sure if I want to stay in this profession. I don't know if this is even good for me anymore. This is causing stress, whatever that is, there are thousands of educators that are facing those same questions with themselves this summer, when they reach out, I really have a conversation about why they started getting into teaching in the first place. Because all of us had at one point, and we started out thinking in some way shape or form, we were going to impact others in a positive way that hopefully would cause the world to change in some other dramatic way that would be beneficial, right? That's really at the heart of what we wanted to do. We may have got into teaching because we love working with high school students, or elementary students or middle school students, because we thought it was so fun, we may have gotten into it because the schedule is great for our families. And we had this vision about how amazing it would be to be able to be with our own families and be able to serve other people's families. Those are all great reasons. But we often forget that in the day to day grind of everything that comes with this job. So let's talk about that why we really discuss why that why is still relevant, is that still an important thing to you. Because if it's not, then there's no reason to stay in the profession. And that is a disservice if you say and it's a disservice to you as a human being in a professional to your family, because it impacts everything, but also to those students in that school. And a lot of teachers I think struggle with why don't want to let my school down. I don't want to let my students down. Well, that's a very admirable thought process, except that if your heart isn't in it, no matter how hard you work, to just make things come together, your students are going to pick up on it, and it's going to create more dramatic results in the classroom than you really want. And so we start with that process first. Is that vision still valid for you? And if not, do you want to continue developing the vision that keeps you in the classroom or not? And I don't think often that teachers take the time to ask themselves that question. I think when you take the time to really address that, things become very clear. But there's a lot of fear around that. What happens if I don't what kind of job could I do? How would I support my family? What happens to all those students if I leave? You know, there's all kind of questions around that. So that's kind of where we start is first, just to kind of address that, did that make sense to you?

Jen Rafferty
100%. That's how I actually address it also, from our last conversation doesn't surprise me that we have the same kind of process. Because you're right, if we don't have a reason to get up in the morning to do the thing, that every piece of everything else that we might share, or teach these educators doesn't have any grounding, right? That your your why really creates the roots in the ground that then you can grow, you know, and I can go on forever with that plant analogy or that I love the tree analogy. But it's true. And there's two things that I want to just touch on about that. The first one is, I think one of the reasons why people don't like to initially talk about this is because it can be very confronting, because it can be all of a sudden a realization of, oh, I don't know that I want to do this anymore. And what does that mean about me? Because that is a huge identity shift, right? I mean, so many of us wanted to do this, for whatever reason, when we were younger, having nothing to do with fame or fortune having to do with really changing the world. And if now, all of a sudden, I'm in my mid career, and I don't want to do this anymore. What does that mean about me? And who am I now? And I think those are really important questions. So can you talk a little bit about how that comes up for you?

Stephanie Haynes
Yeah, absolutely. Because that's such an important point, Jen. I mean, we do invest so much of ourselves in this profession, that it does become our identity. That in itself is its own catch 22. Because your job should never define you, you are a human being you have amazing qualities, gifts and talents, however you choose to use them. It doesn't mean that you are a failure, if you decide you want to walk away from teaching, nor does it mean you are not who you are. That's the important part. And so it's a hard thing to walk away from. And I've had to do that. I don't know who you and I talked about in one of our previous conversations. But there was a point in time when I had to ask myself those very questions. Who am I if I'm not a teacher, am I a failure? My kids were young, we had just moved out of the state of California into the state of South Carolina, my credential wasn't going to transfer easily I would have to do all these things. My kids were little did I really want to go back into the classroom, he didn't start over again, really is what that was going to be. But I kept thinking, well, if I'm not a teacher, who am I, I have never done anything else. All I ever wanted to do was a teacher. And those are really scary questions. And so I often shared that story, obviously, with anybody who's looking for help with that, so that they know they're not alone. But what I do ask them Are those open questions that say, Well, who do you want to be? What does that look like for you? And does walking away from being in the classroom mean, you walk away from education, and that opens up a lot of doors that will say nobody, when we're in the classroom, we are so hyper focused on being in the classroom that we forget, there's this amazing world around us that we're even preparing our students to go into, for example, right? Or that we ourselves can fit into support and still change the world? Those questions we don't tend to think about. So I asked those questions. And I help my clients kind of think about what what would that really look like? And if you do choose to walk away? How will that impact your family positively or negatively? What do you need to do to prepare to offset some of those maybe negative consequences? What does that look like for you? And even working with a client who says, Well, you know what, I think I need a year to figure this out. Great. Then we address how do you want to focus on your job performance this year? What does that mean? And even just having the hope of I'm developing something new, directly impacts that educators performance in the classroom, even if they're planning on going, because they have this renewed vigor and energy like this is not the end of me, I can do something different. And that in itself is empowering. And when you're empowered as an educator, you empower your students in a different way.

Jen Rafferty
Oh, you are preaching to the choir? Stephanie. Yes, and I love every single word you just said. And now I want to switch gears for a second and talk about the teachers who now decide, do this work, decide that staying is aligned, but are also in that place of I really through the research I've been doing on my PhD. And outside of it, I realized a lot of the feelings come from this sense of like learned helplessness, right? Where you're in the classroom, and you're sitting on the hamster wheel. And it just seems like no matter what you do, you're not able to make a difference. And I've seen educators in this space and they come and they're just like, I feel irrelevant. That's some of the things that people say to me, and that doesn't feel good. And this idea of remember your why has become sort of this way to kind of placate people like this because when it's used inappropriately, it becomes very condescending, and it doesn't actually help anything. And this is coming from somebody who who used to just tout remember your why. But for me now, I've kind of shifted this a little bit, because it's not enough to just remember it, we need to embody it, we need to activate it in a way that we can create those roots. So we can grow. And I know you can't see me if you're listening, but I'm kind of making roots in my one hand and growing with my other hand, kind of like the tree I was talking about earlier. So how do you address that too, because it's so much more than just remembering it remembering it sometimes makes it feel like resentful, almost right?

Stephanie Haynes
Absolutely. And sometimes it can make it feel incredibly heavy. When we go, let's like get into it. But I have not done that. And there's a lot of guilt that comes in sometimes or even shame where I'm like, this is not where we're going with it. This was just to kind of see where you started. And now you take a look at where you are, where do you want to go? So let's say we have that teacher who decides that they want to stay in the classroom, but they don't like how it is now? Well, then that comes down to what do you really want it to look like in your classroom? What do you want to be able to say at the end of the year that you experienced as a teacher, not what your kid did? Not what your kids achieved? But what did you experience as an educator, as a professional as a human being? And I think you're right, that learned helplessness, we tend to think it's all about the kids, and we can't get any of it. But I want to argue that when you flip that script, I know that's a trite phrase. But still, when you flip that script, and you say, Listen, what do I need to get out of my experience? Well, then your students get way more than you ever could have wanted them to have. And that's how I asked my teachers who are staying in the profession to approach it. What do you want to get out of this year, and they have a hard time? Because they really haven't had to think about this, or have not given themselves permission to think about it this way. And it feels very selfish. Well, it's not really about me, is it? Yes, it is about you. You're the professional. And yes, our culture does not treat you as a professional. But you are a professional. How do you want to show up as a professional every day? And what do you want to get out of that experience? And that lends itself to a whole host of different discussion topics everywhere from well, I don't want my kids to treat me this way. Great. Let's talk about classroom management strategies and procedures and what that looks like, too, I want to make sure I have more leadership development opportunities in my school. Okay, how do you need to ask for those? What needs to be done? And how do you want to step into those two? Well, I want to be able to go back to school and get a different degree. All right, how do you do that this coming year with what you're doing? And what does that really look like for you to create that balance for yourself? And the fact that you are going to have to spend time in school plus with your students, but maybe with your family and yourself? Let's map that out and see what that looks like. So it often starts with that conversation of how do you want to show up in June? What really do you want to say your life is like in June, and then we work backwards from there. And you know, the whole backwards model and education works for us as human beings too. How do we need to start to get there.

Jen Rafferty
Amazing, because that is also my next step to you. It's figuring out what do you want, right? How do you want to feel? And what's so interesting to me is when I asked teachers this you're, right, it's at first very much about the kids. It's about the kids achievements. It's about everything else outside of themselves. And I think part of this is a bigger picture, phenomenon of people, particularly women not asking themselves, what do I want? What do I desire? What do I need right now in this moment, because of the way that it's just in the air that we breathe, of being givers, and constantly giving himself and this idea that even just wanting something like going to the bathroom during the day can be seen as the selfish act. It's just not a functional way to operate. And it's not sustainable, especially if you want to have any kind of satisfaction in the work that you're doing. So this all ties beautifully together. Because once you know what you want, then you're 100%. Right? Well, then what does that mean for me today? And that's really where your power lies. That's what being empowered actually feels like.

Stephanie Haynes
Right. And it's a scary place. And you're probably experienced this with your clients as well as when you realize what you want. It's like, "Oh, wait, can I do it? Am I worth it? Is this asking too much?" And then the negative comes out? Well, my school will never go with this, or these students will never be changing or always not. These parents have to deal with all of this negative thought processes come in. Not that they're not baby grounded in reality. Let's let's be clear, there have been a lot of attacks on educators in the last several years, more so than I've ever thought possible. I mean, I don't know. I started teaching in 1992. And at that point, the mentality was still teachers knew what they were doing. And parents made sure their students knew that teachers knew what they were doing. The dynamic is very different today. I think we would agree that it's not that way at all. School districts don't necessarily support teachers who might have threats by parents. I mean, there's all kinds of ugly things, students aren't showing up respectful. Students aren't showing up willing to learn. There's a lot of negative against any of this. So that's not let's make sure we're not glossing over that, right? Because that's what you're facing when you step back into the classroom. And that's a reality. So how do you want to view that reality? How do you want to embrace that reality? And that in itself feels odd? How am I going to embrace that parents are going to be a nightmare? All right, well, let's talk about that. How do you want to counteract that? What do you think your parents need? What are your parents really looking for when they're trying to come at you at some way? Generally, it comes from a place where they love those kids, and they just want to make sure their kids are okay. And they're terrified that they're going to be judged as poor parents. They're so afraid that somehow they're going to fail their kid that they've learned that they have to manipulate, manage and overwhelm everything about their children's life. Now, like I said, I work with parents, too. So I hear this a lot. So when I tell my educators as well, what do your parents need to hear from you to know they can trust you that they can back off that they know that you've got their child? What does that look like with your population? What does that look like? And often it's very different, right? You have demographics where parents are not responding to emails, having a face to face conversation is not going to happen. Making a phone call, you could do that and leave a voicemail, but it's not always going to be received. Okay, that's get it, you can't fix everything. But what can you start? And how is that going to help you become the educator you want. And that just becomes that beginning process, whether it's a weekly email you send out to your parents and your students that says, hey, here's what we did this week. Here's the amazing things we were up to this week. Here's what's coming next week, here's what you need to prepare for. Versus Well, I haven't talked to you all year, but I'm calling you because your student has been messing up for the past six weeks, well, those are kinds of habits that we don't want to use, you want to maybe have that personal positive interaction right off the bat. And this is just one thing, right? Just with parents. And that does come down to your own personality and how you do things. But the reality is, parent communication is essential to what we do. So if you want to show but then at the end, like you did a fantastic job. And for you, that means you don't have parents breathing down your neck. Alright, what do you need to do to keep parents from breathing down your neck? You can't change them? Only you can do something different? That's going to address that. And how do you want to address that? So that's, I think one of those things that we're talking about, right?

Jen Rafferty
Oh, 100%. Because, again, we are done pointing fingers at everyone and everything else for the reasons that we're feeling the way we're feeling right now, that's not working. And that is a complete abdication of power, what we're doing here and the work that you do, and the work that I do is shifting the paradigm, shifting the perspective understanding that you are actually 100% responsible for how you show up in every given space. And so what can you do to meet the moment and that's truly where your power lies. But I want to go back to something that you said too, about all of those thoughts that come in to play when you're making a decision that is different from what you've been doing in the past, and that inner monologue of all of the things that can go wrong and questioning your worthiness, all of that. So how do you address those thoughts with your educators that you work with?

Stephanie Haynes
I think the first part is helping them to identify that that's actually what they're thinking. Often those thoughts are so ingrained in our brains that we're not even aware of them. You've done enough brain science research, I'm sure you know, when you building neural pathways, sometimes those happen to us. And we don't stop them because we don't recognize they're going on. But they become those automatic habitual thoughts. I can't do this, therefore, I'm not going to do this. And that I think the biggest awakening part with working with clients is helping them recognize what do you think about this right now? And really, what are your thoughts? And I term it? What's the committee in your head saying to you, and often when teachers and even anybody else, they work with parents, and students and so on, when they start to pay attention, they realize that a lot of it is negative? And a lot of his voices that they don't even know whose words It really is? And if it was any of that true? And then that becomes a bigger question, they realize 90% of it most likely not true. So what do you want to hold on to with the 10%? It is and how do you want to get rid of the rest. And that's a really empowering piece of the work. Because if you are constantly listening to those voices that say you're not worthy enough to have the classroom that you really want, you're not worthy enough to have the position at the school that you think you're capable of having. You're not worthy enough of having students who actually like being in your classroom, whatever that might be. Well, no matter what efforts you put into changing, you're not going to believe it's going to work and you're going to self sabotage. This is just part of how we are. So if I can help you identify that and help you address that and decide what the truth really is, and then help you build those new neural pathways about The truth now we have something. And that's usually where that accountability piece comes in. You continue working with clients who remind you or not I remind them by the way, how was that negative thought? Is it still taking over for you? What does it look like when you're replacing it with the truth? How does that look for you? What impact does that have for you? Because in the middle of it, we're not really paying attention. We're just trying to remember to do it. But so we step back and say, so you did do that this week? How did that change your perception of your students? Or if that changed your perceptions of yourself? Then that's when the realization comes like, oh, wow, wait, I'm not totally drained. On Friday afternoon, I didn't need to just run out of school because my hair was on fire, because I was freaking out and stressed out and just done. Oh, what was different? And that's usually where that stuff comes in.

Jen Rafferty
Yeah. And the idea that your thoughts are in facts, I think is really novel for a lot of people. Our brain makes thoughts just like our heartbeats and our eyes, blink, our brain produces thoughts, and they're not real, necessarily. They're not factual, they are options for you. And what's also so empowering is you get to pick and choose what thoughts feel good, and what thoughts align with the person who you want to be. Because if you're attaching to a thought over and over again, I don't deserve this, I'm not worthy of this, I can do this, that then becomes your reality. Because then your thoughts inform your feelings and form your actions. And then there you go, right. So it's this interesting cycle that happens over and over again, most of it subconsciously. And so exercises you're sharing right now is really about raising your conscious awareness. So then you can make active choices of what's serving you and what's not.

Stephanie Haynes
Well, that's true. And that's the same as how we think about our students, how we think about our administration, how we think about our parents, all of that has to be exhibited, in order for us to really be able to move forward in a healthy way to continue building our profession. We choose to stay we need to pay attention, how am I really thinking about students? Is that really true? And if it is true, how am I want to approach that if I'm shooting this day in the classroom, we can get that one or two students in each year that are just the bane of our existence, right? And we can kind of branch out their behavior on to everybody else like, hey, oh, my gosh, students are so crazy these days, or every student is cheating. And I know that cheating is rampant, but not every student is cheating. All these things are so unmotivated. Really, is that really the case? Or are there two or three squeaking wheels that are causing you something different than what is really true? Who are you paying attention in the classroom, and usually, it's the ones that are acting out, because whatever is going on for them, but we allow that to dictate how we see our classrooms. So it's about identifying that as well as not just the thought process about ourselves, but about the work that we do about the students that we serve about the parents that are part of our world. Because if we're harboring negative assumptions, in any one of those areas, then it's going to impact all of the areas you can't show up energize the, I'm going to have a great day, but still think but these kids are going to really suck today. That doesn't work. So you've got to address all of those assumptions. And again, whatever is fact is fact. But is it all facts? And is it always that? Or if that's the case, how do you want to dress that sense? Because you can't change it, but you can deal with it differently? And what does that look like for you and the classroom you're stepping into?

Jen Rafferty
Yeah, and I want to just take a moment here and just advocate for coaching in general, because it happens internally, in your internal monologue, and most of it subconsciously, one of the best ways to recognize this is through your language. And so when you're talking with a coach, you are able to express yourself in a way where somebody can actually hold a mirror up and say, this is actually what just came out of your mouth. And you're telling me this, but you're saying this. And let's just talk for a second about how these two things don't align? How do you want to get them aligned, so you can actually do the things that you just told me that you wanted to do, because this isn't going to be it? And we can't do that by ourselves. And it's a really important piece of this puzzle that I think now especially educational coaching in general is becoming more and more popular. Can you talk a little bit about that journey for you and talk about those schools that you're building? Because I think that's the perfect example of how you can build schools from the ground up using this kind of model from the beginning, because I think that's super cool. What you're doing right now.

Stephanie Haynes
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. I've got this amazing opportunity to work with a principal of a school. It's opening up this fall, and I was hired originally to just kind of coach him through that process. What does it look like to build the school that you want to build? What kind of culture do you have in mind that you want to embody in your school? What is your vision for this school when it comes to your teachers when it comes to your leadership team when it comes to your students and your parents, what is all of that really look like? And to take the time with the principal, and ask these questions and have them respond like, oh, wait, I think I want this. And then like you said, to mirror it back. This is not about me judging or evaluating the effectiveness of that culture or that vision. It's all about me replying back, well, this is what you said, Did I hear this correctly? Or is this what you want? Is this a clear picture? Let's talk about what that looks like. And so we get that narrowed down, then walking backwards, that backwards model is so important, say, Okay, what do you need to do to do this anywhere from curriculum to how do you want your leadership team to be developed? To what language are you going to use with your teachers, and with your parents, and with anybody else that is going to come into your building? What does that language need to be so that this culture that you want gets developed? And those have been enlightening questions for this principle, as well as now I get to work with his staff, the teachers that he's hired, I'm getting to work with them and say, Well, here's the culture you stepped into? How are you going to make that culture come to life? This is what we've hired you to be a part of, yes, you're an English teacher, or a Math teacher or a Science teacher, but you have a role in developing the foundation of this school, that is going to change the environment of the community, we're in no ifs, ands, or buts, do you want to be part of a positive change or negative change? And what does that really look like for you and empowering them individually and collectively, to support that vision? Or to question that vision to and have those healthy discussions about, okay, this is where we say we're gonna go, but are we making that right decision here. And even what we're doing to which has been amazing is that I'm working with a friend of mine through Clemson Youth and Leadership program. And we have designed a professional development opportunity for this staff, and the students of the school to do together, I don't know has ever been done before, usually, staff gets the professional development, and they kind of Cascade it to the students. We're doing this together. And this school is going to create goals for themselves with each other. So the staff and the students, we're going to narrow it down to five specific goals we want to achieve in this first year, and then how that's going to impact the next five years of the school. That's the discussion that we're having. And I think that can happen at any point in a school anytime you want to change the culture of the school, revamp the culture of the school, it can be harder with your established school, but it's not impossible. There's a way forward. And I think that's what we're talking about is how do we create a culture of a school that is going to be empowering to its staff. Because if the staff is empowered to do what they've been hired to do, everything is impacted positively, all of it shifts, it's when the staff doesn't believe they've been empowered, because they have to meet some benchmark or some test score or something. And not that those aren't necessarily important, because I get they show up on the scorecards. But if that's what we're focusing on, that's on empowering for folks, and empowering teachers to take their subject matter and bring it to life in the way that they have been designed to do. Well, we can't help but have great test scores, you don't work to get great test scores, and then have fun teaching. You have fun teaching, and then you get great test scores. So that's kind of the dynamic, especially this printable really wants to do that. I'm starting to see specifically for this, that these educators are so excited, they're meeting with me after the end of their current school year of their current schools to build next fall already, like they're like, let's go, let's get this started. Let's keep going. That's an empowered staff. And they haven't even stepped foot in a classroom one day yet.

Jen Rafferty
It's amazing. And you are just lit up talking about this, sign me up, because that's really my vision also, that all schools have this moment of clarity of what does this culture look like? What do we want here? And you're right, it's when we start talking about things like test scores and graduation rates. Yes, of course, that's important. But we're focused on outputs. And when we focus on outputs, we ignore the inputs. And we need to focus on the inputs for better outputs. And that's the thing, it's not always immediately gratifying when you're talking about inputs, because I'm gonna go back to this garden analogy, when you're playing around in the dirt, it's dirty, it's messy, and we don't actually see the fruits of the labor for months, sometimes years, sometimes never. And this is the place that where the magic happens, because that's where the growth is. And I think as a societal norm shift to this place of the fertile ground. That's really when we're going to be making some big changes in this world.

Stephanie Haynes
I weighed 100% agree and it is messy. It is uncomfortable when you're disrupting the you're going to cause problems. That's just part of the point. But that's why we do disruption you because we don't want the status quo to stay. And so think of it like when you step into a river that has sandy bottom and you walk around and all that sand starts rising to the surface and clouding out the water. That's okay. It's as long as you don't leave it there and you let it settle, say, where's it settling? What are we need to do to create that vision we really want. And you hold firm to that. But I think you're probably know this too, with either the schools you work with their clients you work with, it's not about telling teachers what they need to do. It's about empowering them to choose to develop the culture they want, and that they very different dynamic. And if you saw me light up earliest, because this principal has said that this is what they want this staff to do, he has verbally empowered them. And so if we're working with school leaders, for example, that's kind of the language that if a school leader wants the culture of the school to change, it's about how are you going to empower those who work in the school setting to bring about that culture change. That's where the magic really happens, like even saying, and that's like, where that administrator kind of gets all muddy, because they're going to have to let go of control. They're going to have to trust their staff, they're going to have to empower their staff, they're going to have to inspire their staff. And that's all messy, right? There's no rulebook for that, because every step is different. But what does that look like to do that? And how do you continue to build that for them and support them throughout the year as they do it? And how do you encourage them that things don't work the way they thought, and so on? How do you let go and say, Listen, we're going to do something because this is what's best for the students, not what's best for a district or a school event at school report card. And when you shift your language and your perspective on that, you end up with better than you thought you were going to have. Because you're focusing on the true reason we're there. It's what did the students need? And if they need stricter classroom management, okay, why are we doing that? How do we want to do that and what happens as a result? Or if they need teachers who can be much more innovative rather than following a script? Okay, why are we doing that? What does that mean? How do we want to empower teachers to do that? It's not about just willy nilly throwing it out there. It's having benchmarks and guardrails, if you will, and all of that. But if we can do that, then I think we changed the profession, and we change the profession, we really do change the world.

Jen Rafferty
100% I knew we were connected. Stephanie, when we when we first talked, we're like, okay, we need to be in each other's worlds more. And I'm so glad that we're having this conversation right now. Because this is exactly what needs to happen right now. And it's not about willy nilly, well, what will feel good today, everything that we're talking about right now comes with so much intention, and conscious awareness and conscious choice. And that's the thing that's the empowering piece is that you are in the driver's seat, not tradition, not expectations, not politics, you and when you get to be in the driver's seat, you get to start to make new decisions, and collectively align your decisions with everyone around you to build the culture of the school. And like you said, at the end of the day, this is really about students, because empowered teachers, empower students. And that's the type of kid that we want to send out into the world that we don't even know what it possibly could look like yet. We want empower kids to know that they too, have conscious choices to live their lives.

Stephanie Haynes
Absolutely. And oh my gosh, you just hit it, I'm gonna get all excited and happy. Well, we empower kids. And the only way you can empower kids, if you're empowered person, you can't demonstrate something that you're not yourself believing in modeling and walking in. And so when we're gonna get all emotional hammer, when we're empowered as educators, that's when we empower our kids. And we tell our kids that yes, we can figure out how to help you be successful in this world after you're done with us here. That's the perspective we really want. But if we're not walking in that same power ourselves, how can we inspire them? And that's when we start having all those problems. And so if we're helping our kids, whoever they are, from that Johnny, who says, I can't read, I don't know, math, or whatever the blocks are and say, no, no, no, I got you. We can work through this to the other students other in the spectrum of that kid says, I know exactly where I'm going, I got this figured out, but I need to have straight A's and I'm panicking or whatever. Okay, I got you. Here's how we can help you figure that out. And if you're an educator today, that pie feels really exhausting to think about. I have 25-35 different kids in my classroom, how am I going to help them all be successful? Because oh my gosh, that can be different. You're right. But if you're trying to figure out how to be successful for yourself, it's the same process with them. And you can do it collectively and have individual responses and then you have great discussions. And then you can start with who are my kids who are these little creatures that are in my room they're gonna be my world every single day. If you take that time at the beginning of your school year to really get to know your kid and let them get to know you. Now you have fuel to rocket fuel to take any lessons. You want and make it relevant? Because now I can say, Oh, I know that this kid over here has been talking about how he doesn't think he liked school at all. You think he's smart enough? But I know he is. And now I can call him out and say this is how would you do this kind of problem? And where do you think this problem might show up in the world? Well, this kid has a completely different perspective than another one. Well, now you get two different opposing viewpoints. Great. Let's have a discussion about it. Well, let's get them going. And no, this is not something you show up and do day one, and it takes a while to train your kids. They're not going to just jump into this and I get it. But we say to our student athletes, if you will, you listen, I'm going to use the analogy of English because I'm a trained English teacher, and I'm working through a particular novel. And I know that student athletes that don't even care well, okay, how can I take what they're doing in their sport or sports analogies in general, and relate it to the topics, even if it's just a theme? That's okay, how can we make that relevant for that child, so they understand that this particular character is struggling just like this kid does when he sets up to the plate, or tries to catch a ball or whatever that might be? There are similarities across everything. Well, if I can connect through that child sport, now I've got them paying attention, the fact that I actually care about them, and I see them. And when I care and see, then they feel inspired to want to do something different. It's just human nature. When we know someone cares about us, we want to do something different, rather than we think we're ignored, because it just have to get through the lesson.

Jen Rafferty
Yeah. And the way to do that effectively, kind of bringing it back around is that you need to care and love yourself.

Stephanie Haynes
Yes. You can't do that. Without that first, you are absolutely correct.

Jen Rafferty
Yes. So good. So good. Stephanie. So I have to ask you the same question I ask everyone who's on the show, what is your dream for the future of education?

Stephanie Haynes
It's such a big question. You think so many dreams, but I think at the root of all of them? Is that the profession of teaching, that the members of the profession of teaching would treat themselves as professional and act as empowered professionals that they actually have? Because once they do that, then everything changes?

Jen Rafferty
Yes. Oh, I love that. More, please. So how can people learn more about you, and the work that you do?

Stephanie Haynes
The best place is to go to my website, it's stephaniehaynes.net, you can see all the different tabs about parents and educators, schools and the whole thing. But if you want to learn more you can reach out for I think, on the educator page, I have a set up a discovery call, that's a free thing, you and I can have a conversation about what's going on in your world, you're not gonna bug me. And if we just have a conversation, like I don't even know if I want to stick into this. Alright, we'll talk through that for about 30 minutes. If at the end of that you're like, this is valuable, I kind of think I want to continue, then we'll discuss all that and do it. But I don't mind just sitting with an educator for 30 minutes and saying, Hey, listen, how can I help you today? So that's the best way if you really want to get in touch with me just do that because it takes you right to my calendar, your schedule your call, we're all good to go. And I would love to help any of our educators, and any of our administrators, guidance counselors, anybody worked in a school setting this thinking about how do I do things differently to reach out and do that? And then at that point, if we decide to move forward, and you can say to me, Hey, listen, I heard you on the Jen Rafferty podcast, I heard you on this, and I really want to reach out well, great, then we can talk about how you get a package deal, because I think that's important. When you are supporting somebody out there like you that's doing a whole bunch of things to change the world education and I'm going to support you in that too. So we can send me we'll definitely set up a package for you that's going to be affordable for an educator, I promise you because I know y'all struggle. I'm we're all in that same boat financially.

Jen Rafferty
Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And Stephanie is a huge resource. So please take advantage of all the things that she has to offer. And thank you so much for your time and your talents. I so enjoyed speaking with you.

Stephanie Haynes
I really have enjoyed this conversation. I hope we get to do it again. So thank you.

Jen Rafferty
We definitely well. So if you love today's episode, be sure to write a five star review. And we'll see you next time on Take Notes.

Jen Rafferty
Incredible, right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

How do you show up for work during challenging times, like breakups?

Today, we're diving deep into a topic that many of us can relate to: navigating difficult times while still showing up for work.

I had the pleasure of interviewing Tal Yardeni, the breakup recovery coach, about navigating through challenging times while still being able to excel in our professional lives, especially for teachers like us.

Join us as we delve into our personal journeys and wisdom, aiming to inspire and empower you. Tal will spotlight self-forgiveness and self-compassion, revealing their transformative power for your mindset and resilience. We'll further explore the value of self-care, introspection, and cultivating supportive circles.

Ready to discover how to navigate difficult times while putting your well-being first? Listen in!

Stay empowered,

Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Tal:
Tal is known as the breakup recovery coach. Having gone through her own heartbreak and being on the other side of it, she is super passionate about helping women let go of their ex, learn to love the f out of themselves, and be ready for their best relationship yet, inside of her life changing coaching program- The Breakup To Badass Formula.

Connect with Tal:
IG: @thetalyardeni

TRANSCRIPTS:  Jen Rafferty 00:00
Going through a breakup is tough, and it can be easy to try to put on a brave face and just push through for all of your other responsibilities like your job. But pushing through might look like everything is okay on the surface maybe. But unless you address it head on, all the things lurking in those corners will eventually come out probably in inopportune times and places. So when we face ourselves and get to the root of the emotions, we realize that this is all temporary, and we can start to heal. My guest today shares brilliant insights as to how we can navigate through these difficult situations like going through a breakup, while remaining kind and true to ourselves. And if you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to write a review on Apple podcasts. This is how we bring awareness so more people get to hear this awesome podcast. Empowered Educators empower each other. And I am so grateful for you. As you were listening to today's episode, Thank you.

Jen Rafferty 01:05
Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching. Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world. Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away. But it's absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to The Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids. We need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy, and fulfillment. This is education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work, and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee, and grab your notebook. It's time to take notes.

Jen Rafferty 02:13
Hello, everyone and welcome back to another episode of Take Notes. I'm here with Tal Yardeni. And she is known as the breakup recovery coach. And having gone through one of her own heartbreaks, and being on the other side of it, she is super passionate about helping women let go of their ex learn to love the f out of themselves and be ready for their best relationship yet. And she does this with her life changing coaching program the breakup to badass formula. Hi, Tal.

Tal Yardeni 02:41
Hello, happy to be here.

Jen Rafferty 02:43
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your time and being here with me today. And the take notes audience because breakups suck, and they're so hard. And when you were going through that and having to show up for your job, particularly when you're dealing with kids, and you don't have a break during the day and you feel like you have to put on a brave face or whatever story you might be telling yourself that adds to so much of the stress that you are already going through. So let's just dive in. And can we just talk about what that's even like? Like, how do we navigate through some of this?

Tal Yardeni 03:20
Yeah, so I can completely empathize with that I remember when I was going through my own breakup, and just having to show up at the time I was a performer. So as a singer and actress in the city, I just felt like I was so depleted. And then I was having to show up for these auditions. And in audition, so you're like at a 10. It's like opening night of a Broadway show when you're going into an audition. So you have to be your best. And so when you feel like you have nothing to give, it's just like you're already at a zero. And then already having to get from that empty tank, you really are left with nothing. So when you're talking about especially teachers, I have had so many clients who are teachers in at the beginning stage of the program, they're kind of in this spot where they just feel so empty, and so they're showing up to their classrooms. And they're almost on edge because they feel like I can't be present. I feel like I'm failing, I'm not doing a great job. And I had nothing left to give. So one of the things that we talked about is where can we scale back in our lives. Because this isn't really the time to people like to busy themselves. And it's really not the time to busy yourself. So of course you have to show up to your job, but where can you scale back in your life so that you can at least have some of that energy to give during those hours. So we look at that and what you know, and it's customized in a way because everyone kind of has a different schedule. You know, Are you a mother? What do you have going on in your home life? What other obligations do you have, but there are definitely places where we can look and go right now this is not the time for this. Right now, this is not the time for this. You know, this is also where we're putting boundaries and if you're especially a person who is so available to everybody, this is not the time to be available to everybody because you have to be available to yourself as you navigate this heartbreak.

Jen Rafferty 04:56
Yeah, and I resonate with the busy-ing yourself very much, especially before my ex husband and I decided to eventually just like call it, we were going to have a divorce the times before them that were really hard and painful. The way that I would cope with them was getting really busy. I dove into this is the nerdy side of me, I dove into my research, I dove into writing my book, I was so distracted by everything by design. So I wouldn't actually have to take a look in the mirror and feel all of the really painful feelings and be confronted with some very difficult decisions that I knew deep inside I would have to make. So can we talk a little bit about that, too, because this is wisdom that I've gained years later looking back on this, but in the moment that almost felt like a survival tactic that I needed to busy myself in order to push away the pain that I know is imminent.

Tal Yardeni 05:55
Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for sharing that, because I'm sure that so many people listening can relate to this. So yeah, it's a protective mechanism in a way, right, you're protecting your heart, because from having to feel the deep pain, because we really think there's a part of us that feels like Oh, my God, if I have to face this, I won't be able to bear it. So I'm going to do everything that I can to avoid feeling this feeling. But that saying the only way out is through. That is a saying for a reason. And so any deep healing work, we have to feel fully we have to learn how to self regulate so that the feelings don't have to feel so overwhelming that we can sit with what we're feeling without the shame. And they'll be able to pass so that you can actually get to the other side. But if we're always busying ourselves in our lives, you're avoiding that deep healing work.

Jen Rafferty 06:43
Totally. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. And it just prolonged itself until I was ready to deal with it, which happens also coincide with the pandemic where I was, quite literally alone dealing my feelings.

Tal Yardeni 06:56
Yes, you're forced into it.

Jen Rafferty 06:58
Right. But it's, you don't have to wait for another pandemic to deal with your feelings, I suppose is the message here?

Tal Yardeni 07:04
Yeah, but listen, it came when it needed to for you. Right, it sounded like you were not ready before. And so I think it did a lot of this for a lot of people during the pandemic is that we were forced to look at ourselves, because everyone at the same time had to shut down. Everything was shut down. Everything was taken away from us at the same time. And we all had to sit with ourselves.

Jen Rafferty 07:22
Yeah. And so let's talk about shame for a minute, everyone's favorite and topic shame. But it is part of the healing process. And in order to really go there and do the deep healing, that's so necessary, we need to talk about shame in a way that brings it to light, because it is a normal thing that we all feel. And it also becomes easier to navigate when we can talk and understand it more. So can you share a little bit about some of the shame that is felt during some of these difficult times?

Tal Yardeni 07:54
Oh, yeah, one that I hear a lot is feeling like you failed in the relationship, feeling like you failed as a mother, because you're choosing to walk away from something, feeling like you stayed too long. So those are probably my top three that I know, there are many others. But those are the top three that I hear the most. And there's so much shame around it. I should have known better. Maybe I didn't try hard enough. What if I would have done this? What if I would have been that? And so when I'm working with my clients, I would really look at that. And I'm like, first of all, I will never invalidate what you're feeling because it's what's coming up for you. But what is going to help you with the shame with the thoughts that are coming at you all the time, is how do you speak to yourself, because what we want to do is we want to start befriending ourselves. We want to become essentially our own best friend. So I will say the way that you would speak to a child, the way that you would speak to someone you love the most if they were coming to you and saying these things, how would you respond to them? Because most likely, you don't say those same things to yourself. If we spoke to other people, the way that we speak to ourselves, we would have no friends.

Jen Rafferty 08:58
So true. It'd be very lonely existence.

Tal Yardeni 09:04
Right? We are so hard on ourselves. It's like zero grace. Perfectionism, not allowed to mess up. And so in life moments like this, this is really that time to be friend yourself and say, You know what, I was doing the best that I could at that time. And I can understand how it would feel like I'm failing by choosing to walk away. But actually, I'm honoring myself by walking away because this is a really hard thing to do. It's incredibly brave to walk away from something that's incredibly brave, to walk away from a family.

Jen Rafferty 09:37
Absolutely. And that judgment that we and we because we all do it. Even those of us who've been doing this work for so long. There are layers of this that that it's not like it all goes away what night it's more of the awareness piece, right? It's like, oh, I'm catching myself doing this now. But we all do this and this judgemental voice or your shitty committee, you know, is what I like to call it. It's the one where Yeah, where it's always Like, well, you know, it should be this, it should be that and as soon as you start shitting on yourself, you know that that's coming from a place of harsh judgment. And I loved what you said about, you know, how would you speak to a child about this, because essentially, those of you been hanging out here for a long time understand this, too, is that we are talking to our inner child, our inner child is the one that's feeling shame. Right now, our inner child is the one that's feeling not good enough and a failure. And in these moments, we have this beautiful opportunity to rewire our brains and our networks in a way that we get to parent, our younger selves. And for me, a big piece of that separate from the grace, maybe a part of the grace was self forgiveness. And that I didn't really understand because I will say, for such a long time, I was feeling all of this anger and all of this resentment, and I assumed that all of this was about my ex. But through this work, I know, I know, you know where I'm going into this because you're laughing. So through this work, I realized, oh, shit, I am angry and resentful at younger versions of me. And it wasn't until I had that realization that I was even able to go into a place of self forgiveness. So what happened then, of course, was this beautiful moment where as you said, younger Jen, you did the best you could with the information you had at that time. And I'm actually at a place right now where I am so grateful for her. Because I'm here now, like literally talking to you. And if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be here in this moment. So it kind of like glazed over the big broad strokes of how that happened for me, but that of course takes time, intention, and recommitment. But can you talk a little bit about that process?

Tal Yardeni 11:45
Yeah, of course. So I love what you said, because it's not about the x it is about you. And so the difference between a woman who wants to heal and move forward, and a woman who's stuck and can't seem to move forward is that she's stuck in the story. So it's all about the X. It's all about what they did to me, how could they? And there's like zero self reflection going on. And so why is it so important that we look at ourselves, and we do that deep inventory, because there's nothing that we can do about that other person, we can't change them, right? The only person that we have agency over is ourselves, that's the only person. So of course, when you start to look at yourself, which is very hard to do, it's not about really forgiving your acts as much as it is about forgiving yourself. So it's exactly what you said. Because when you forgive yourself, you free yourself.

Jen Rafferty 12:35
Yeah. And that's so powerful. And what I've noticed that in doing that work for me, my interactions with my ex have become so much more pleasant. You know, and that's not to say that we haven't had our ups and downs over the last few years. But in general, once I really got there, I changed. So our interactions changed. And I think that's the whole thing, right? You can only change yourself. And it's cliche, because it's true, you need to be the change that you want to see. And it's so easy to just point fingers and blame at all the external things, particularly and acts as a cause for how you're feeling. But at the end of the day, the only thing you have agency in is yourself, your actions, your thoughts, your language, your beliefs, your stories that you choose to subscribe to. So it looks like unsubscribe to the ones that aren't serving us.

Tal Yardeni 13:25
Exactly. Because really, I'm not going to take away from through might have been really painful things that happened in that relationship, right. So when I'm talking about forgiveness of self, and also forgiving your exits, not excusing the behavior, it's just that you're no longer letting that behavior hold you in bondage.

Jen Rafferty 13:41
Right. That's where the freedom comes in. So something you mentioned earlier, before we were recording is this idea of what rom coms have taught us about our self worth. And I love this because especially as a parent and going through a divorce and doing my own personal growth work, I look at what the media and the the movies and TV shows they're consuming. And it really paints such a false picture of what things actually are, which then sets our expectations to this, like, I was gonna say a ridiculous level, but it's really it's almost as if it's like on another planet. Yes, it's a fantasy. It's a total fantasy. And so this is kind of perpetuating our idea of what it means to have and that we need to earn our worth, which is also complete bullshit. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Tal Yardeni 14:32
Yeah. So as I was working with women, and I really was like researching and kind of looking at like the psychology behind like, you know, there are certain patterns that we subscribe to, like, where does this come from? And a lot of it has to do exactly what we consumed growing up. And what mainstream media is showing us is so asked backwards from what a healthy relationship is. So first of all, we're not taught healthy relationships. They're rarely modeled and When you look at rom coms, they're certainly not modelled. You know when that Jerry Maguire line You complete me is honestly like one of the most dangerous lines out there. Because basically you're saying, I am not a complete human unless I'm with another person. And now that person is going to validate me. And now I am complete. So what kind of message are we sending to young women? That doesn't matter your accomplishments, it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter your values. It doesn't matter your contribution to the world. Unless you are in a relationship, you're not complete. Your life doesn't begin. And so when we're looking at rom coms, it's really this. There's like a savior mentality happening. There's also like this woman, she's so accomplished, she's got so much going on in her life, and she's got friends, she's got everything, but she doesn't have the man. And it's so toxic. It's so toxic, but it's what we've grown up with. So we think that relationships that don't feel stable, that's normalized, we feel that we need to fix someone. So if it's like that bad boy, oh, well, I'm going to be the one to change him. Honey, you can't change anybody. We just discussed this. But this is what's shown to us. And then if you listen to music, oh my gosh. And listen, I love love. And there's nothing wrong with partnership. But I want you to have a healthy partnership, not one that's based on codependency,

Jen Rafferty 16:13
Sure and obligation to a societal expectation.

Tal Yardeni 16:18
Yes, exactly. Like there's nothing wrong with you if you're single. And there's nothing wrong with you, if you're in partnership. neither good or bad. It's really what you're looking like, really, what is your why behind the partnership is it growth and expansiveness and a wonderful journey together, or is it I'm incomplete, I'm unhappy, and I'm looking for someone else to fill my void. Those are different relationships,

Jen Rafferty 16:42
They really are. And that's where it becomes about putting yourself worth up for negotiation with this other person. So let's talk about that. Because all of these things are easily transferable to friendship, relationships, and co worker relationships and parent child relationships. Even teacher student relationships like these are just relationships, right? And so it's these topics, even though we're focusing right now on perhaps romantic relationships, and those kinds of partnerships. This is about all sorts of relationships, you know, Mother Daughter relationships. And so this idea of self worth in those relationships is tricky sometimes, because like you said, in this kind of desire or need to feel complete, we allow a door to open for somebody else to say, Yes, you are worthy, or no, you are not. And that roller coaster ride is just one you don't have to get on.

Tal Yardeni 17:44
Absolutely. Because when you're basing your worth on external circumstances, then you're absolutely right. It will be a roller coaster, because it will always be dependent on what's coming at you. How is that person feeling? How are they reacting, you're in a sense, you're not in control, when you come from a place of knowing that you are innately worthy, and it has nothing to do with your job title. It has nothing to do with you being a mother, it has nothing to do with your accomplishments, we are just innately worthy, because we're here and alive period, it is such a different place to come from, because then you're not dependent on whether another person sees that you did the great job, whether another person sees the value that you're bringing into the classroom, because you know, I'm great at what I do. I'm going to show up as myself, I'm here to serve. And here we go. And it's not going to be dependent on well did the parents notice how I'm affecting their kids that you know, all the chatter?

Jen Rafferty 18:42
It's noisy?

Tal Yardeni 18:43
Yes.

Jen Rafferty 18:44
And it's loud right now.

Tal Yardeni 18:46
Very.

Jen Rafferty 18:46
It's very loud, everything is very loud. And it seems challenging sometimes to block out all of the noise. But here's where the work comes in. Right? Because the work happens when you get quiet. And you get quiet with yourself. And you start to prioritize the things that are really important to you. And you get to look at all of the relationships in your life and ask yourself, Is this serving me? Am I showing up in a way that's aligned with who I want to be? And those questions seems easy and simple, but it takes time. And they can be painful. And sometimes when the answer is no, well, then you need to make some pretty important decisions in your life.

Tal Yardeni 19:28
Oh, absolutely. The women that I work with, they think they're coming into a program to get over their axe, but what they come out with is so much more because relationships, like you said, our relationships, whether romantic, platonic, co worker environments, whatever it is. And so when you're working on this area of your life, it's going to permeate into other areas of your life and you're not going to be able to ignore it anymore.

Jen Rafferty 19:50
Right? Well, you know, my favorite Greg Brady line is wherever you go, there you are. Yeah, and that's just it. So when you start doing the healing and the growth, you are that way everywhere, which is great news.

Tal Yardeni 20:04
It's beautiful because we're no longer abandoning. So for me, when people ask me to describe self worth, or self love, I always say, in a nutshell, it's when you're no longer willing to abandon yourself. And so it means that you are really checked in with what's coming up for you in any given situation. So that you're no longer having to people, please, you're no longer having to put on a brave face, you're no longer having to pretend to be okay with things you're not okay with, you have a voice, and you're able to take a stand. And you're also not afraid to take up space, you don't have to play small anymore. You know, we were not put on this earth to play small and dim our light. If you want to affect change in the world, you've got to take up space, and you've got to shine frickin bright. And that may sound corny, that may sound whatever. But that's really why we're here.

Jen Rafferty 20:49
Oh, 100% preach? Yes. Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, that's just it. And unfortunately, what happens is when we are little, we have messages implicitly and explicitly that it's dangerous to take up space, we don't want to brag, we don't want to be too much. We don't want to be too loud. And so we shrink, and then we grow up. And we're wondering why we're here. Which brings me to this next piece of this is why it's so important for us as the adults in these spaces to do this work. Because it's not just about us, it is about the generation that is watching us. So can you talk a little bit about that, too?

Tal Yardeni 21:27
Yeah, absolutely. It's so important, because, like we've talked about how we grew up, right, we grew up with rom coms and things that were just not really healthy for us as we were growing into our teenage years, and what love was, and all of that for us. And so now imagine that young women and young men are being taught the exact opposite of that. And it's being modelled by people being in motion. And being that now it's going to be ingrained in their minds, that's going to be normalized for them. And that's so important, because you want that to be normalized, we want it to be normalized that you take care of you first, not because it's selfish. It's not selfish. I hate when people say that, Oh, my God, it's so selfish to do that. So selfish when people say that, no, it's not. There's nothing selfless about you, putting yourself last and taking care of everybody else. Because honestly, you're not at your best, when you have to take care of everybody else, you haven't taken care of yourself. So really selfless, like take care of yourself, so you can be at your best to take care of others.

Jen Rafferty 22:23
Absolutely. And that's the message that is so important in the work that I do with my folks in these spaces also, because when we are not just in relationships with people, but also if you're a parent, and if you are in a profession where you are also serving, whether you're you know, a teacher or other some sort of service industry, you can't do that. If you are depleted, you just can't, and you didn't get into this fields, to just kind of hang out, you go into the service fields, because you want to make a difference in this world. Because you want to make impact. And you can possibly make impact. If you are running on empty with your check engine light on, it's just not going to happen. And so I think what happens is with the folks I talk with, we know this, like in our heads, we know we all go Oh, yeah, I know, Jen, you know, put your own oxygen mask on first, you know, but it doesn't translate to action. So can you talk a little bit about what you share with the people you work with about how to integrate that into their lives?

Tal Yardeni 23:28
Yep. So one of the things I teach you is a morning routine. And that's really important. Because how you start the day is going to determine how the rest of your day will go. And so when you actually take that time for yourself in the morning, you're grounded, you're well rested. Your mind is in a different spot than if you just get up. I'm checking my phones, I'm checking on my kids and I'm out the door and I'm frazzled Sally, right? Like, we want to actually reverse that. So that it becomes normal to Okay, do I only have 15 minutes in the morning to do that for myself? Okay, then I'm gonna wake up 15 minutes earlier, because I'm important to me. And I'm going to take that time to ground myself. And in any spiritual practice, the morning is the most important because that's when our minds are the most open. So we're able to receive. So when you start your day, there's a reason why meditation works. No one wants to do it. It's not because it's fun while you're doing it. It's because of the benefits that we get from doing it and the benefits throughout the day. And then that's going to affect other people because your energy is completely different. So that's one of the things that I teach. And it's very important and oh my gosh, and mothers will challenge me really tell I don't have the time I was like, I bet you can find the time. I bet you can.

Jen Rafferty 24:35
Well, because it's easy to just say I don't have the time. But when you say I don't have the time, what you're actually saying is that it's not a priority. And that is the truth, you know, and the thing is, I actually had a conversation on another podcast episode 25 with Amelia Nagowski. And she also made a comment about this too is when you take that time for yourself, you need to be able to be in a community whether it's your family or whatnot, where they protect that time for you just as much as you protect that time for them. So if you're taking that 15 minutes in the morning, your kids are not only not bothering you, but they are preventing their sibling from coming into the door, because they know how important that is. And that, to me is so powerful. That's how important this can be.

Tal Yardeni 25:21
So important, and it's because it you've now set the standard. That's your boundary. Yes. Mommy's not available during this time.

Jen Rafferty 25:28
Right? Yeah. And everyone's gonna survive. Yes, yeah. And if they're bleeding from their head, then they can wait 15 minutes. It's fine, you're fine. So I always ask everyone at the end of the interview, based on the work that you bring to this world, what is your dream for the future of education?

Tal Yardeni 25:50
When we're kids, I feel like we are so in our light. And we do take up space. And then as we get older, we're told, like you said, we have to constrict, we need to play small. And so my dream for education is that you continue to shine, even as you go into middle school, even as you go into high school that you understand that it's okay to take up space, that I am special, but you're special as well. You're not bragging because you think you're awesome, because you also think other people are awesome, too. And I think that when we come into the world in that way, then we can be unapologetic about who we are. But not from this place of I'm better than you. You said, I know that I'm fantastic. But you're fantastic, too. It's just such a different energy.

Jen Rafferty 26:29
Yes. And you know, what's interesting is that now I only surround myself with people who understand that who I can feel safe saying, I am friggin fantastic. Without being fearful that someone else is gonna feel bad, because my light so bright, because what they do is they say, Yeah, Jen, get it. Yeah, you are. Love it, you know. And I do the same for them. In saying this out loud, which I always you know, when we share our dreams, I think we're one step closer to achieving them. And I hope that the more people that foster those kinds of relationships, and encourage other people to take up space without it feeling threatening to them because it's not unsubscribed to that story too please. Yes, that's really how we all shine. Absolutely.

Tal Yardeni 27:21
It's beautiful. And that's how we contribute to the world. You're not doing anyone. You're doing a disservice to yourself by not shining.

Jen Rafferty 27:28
Right? And the world's step up, shine bright. Sounds like a T shirt. Yes, step up and shine bright. Well, this has been fantastic. I so enjoyed this conversation with you Tal. And I would love for you to share with the listeners today how people can learn more about you and get in touch.

Tal Yardeni 27:51
Yeah, thanks for having me. This has been an awesome conversation. And I think much needed during this time. So you can get in touch with me Instagram is the way to go. You can find me @thetalyardeni. If you are currently going through a breakup or you have questions around relationships, feel free to DM me because I respond to everybody that messages me unless you're like spam. But otherwise feel free. And yeah, and like we talked about before, I have a group coaching program called the breakup to badass formula. So I offer it in a group setting. And then I also offer it one on one because I know that this work can be really vulnerable. And sometimes we don't have the capacity to hold space for others as we're navigating a really difficult time. So I get the option of both. And then I believe in the show notes, we have my free guide, the four ways to move through heartbreak. It's a really great guide. It's four tangible steps that you can take right away. That will just really help you as you start this healing journey.

Jen Rafferty 28:43
Amazing. Yeah, all of those things, including your Instagram handle will be in the show notes. So it'll be super easy for people to get in touch. Thank you again, Tal. This has been great. And I hope to continue these conversations. It's been really good to talk to you.

Tal Yardeni 28:55
Yes, likewise.

Jen Rafferty 28:57
So if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you subscribe, share with a friend and write an awesome review. And we'll see you next time on Take Notes.

Jen Rafferty 29:05
Incredible, right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

Ready to unlock the wisdom of your inner child and embrace the power of reinvention?

Get ready, because in this episode, we're diving deep into the importance of healing our inner child and the transformative nature of reinvention!

I had the pleasure of chatting with Liz Svatek, the CEO of Warrior Women Inc and the host of the Conversations with Warrior Women podcast. We talk about healing our inner child and the importance of embracing our emotions.

During our conversation, we explored the importance of stillness, emotional release, and the power of community. Liz shared her personal experience of suppressing emotions in the past and how embracing emotional release has expanded her capacity for joy.

Trust me, this conversation is going to leave you feeling inspired and ready to make some positive changes in your life. Listen in!

Stay empowered,

Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Liz:
Liz is the CEO of Warrior Women INC, a 6 figure personal growth business founded upon women unleashing their inner warrior and becoming the most powerful versions of themselves. She is the creator of the Warrior Women Experience, a transformational live event bringing women together across the country, and she is the host the Conversations With Warrior Women Podcast- which is globally ranked in the top 1.5%. Liz travels all over the world speaking, healing and empowering women to live into their Limitless Possibility, Reclaim their POWER and HEAL their Little Girls.

Connect with Liz:
Website: lizsvatek.com
IG: @liz.svatek
LinkedIn: Liz Svatek

TRANSCRIPT:  Introduction:
Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed, and overwhelmed, and frustrated.

But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you.

In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook.

It's time to Take Notes!

Jen Rafferty:
Hello, everyone and welcome back to The Take Notes podcast. I am so excited to introduce to you my guest today who is also a dear friend. This is Liz Svatek. And she is the CEO of Warrior Women Inc founded upon women unleashing their inner warrior and becoming the most powerful versions of themselves. She is the creator of the Warrior Woman Experience, a transformational live event bringing women together across the country. And she is the host of The Conversations with Warrior Women Podcast, which is globally ranked in the top 1.5% Which yours truly has been a guest on our podcast before.

Liz travels all over the world speaking, healing, and empowering women to live their limitless possibilities, reclaim their power, and heal their little girls. Hi, Liz, thank you so much for being here.

Liz Svatek:
I mean, I just love you. I could just stare at your face because I just love to see you podcasting. I've had you on my podcast. But this is really fun to be on yours.

Jen Rafferty:
Thank you. Yeah, it is fun for me. You know it really it's just an excuse to have some awesome public conversations with people I adore.

Liz Svatek:
100%. And you bring anyone on that you're fascinated by and you're like, I want to talk to you, sister. Come on here.


Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, oh, 100%. That's what this is. So you talk in your bio about healing little girls, we're just going to dive in, like, what is that? Talk to us about what that means. Why it's important and what's on the other side of it?

Liz Svatek:
Yes, I mean, back in the day, we call this inner child work. This is not new. These are not new things. But I think the way I want to address it, and the way I am addressing it is a little bit different. I think it through inner child work in the past, there was a lot of deep exploration. And that was considered to be very wooed, like you were doing inner child work, you know, like a woo person, you're living on a mountaintop being with your inner child.

I call it your little girl because I work with women, I think your little girl is incredibly accessible. I think this is something that is a daily, hourly, minute-by-minute practice, where we identify and access our little girl inside and we look to her for wisdom, guidance, love, the meeting of our unmet needs, we look to her for everything, I think she is the key. And when I do this work with women, it can be very, not only transformative but upsetting when we first began, because a lot of us have locked away our little girls because guess what, in order to be in the big world and compete with men and compete in the patriarchy, we had to like shut these little girls down. Oh, no, you can't be emotional. You can't be too playful. You can't be too joyful. You got to stay in your lane. And you got to play like a man so that you can survive.

And I think when we realize how long these little girls have been locked up, and that these little girls actually can come into our business into our lives. We can have our little girls play with our children. I mean, my God, all the ways we can play. I think it's upsetting in the beginning because we realize how neglected they've been.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure! Well, we live in a world where we have to grow up very quickly. And you're right. I remember being told myself, I was too much. I was too big. I was too loud. I was too shiny. I was too sparkly, you know, simmer down, slow down, lay down, sit down, like all of this. I think there's actually a Seinfeld bit about this too. And there's a piece of this too about not just growing up quickly, and having to kind of shove all of that down. But I was also taught and told to be a good girl. And that shifted a whole lot about what I thought it meant to be a woman, a person in this space. And I'm sure you come across this a lot. I'm sure you've even experienced this yourself.

Can you talk a little bit about that, because that has had some very serious implications on my life, up until relatively recently, when I started doing my own work about this too?

Liz Svatek:
Well, I mean, a good girl is very limiting. Let’s just start there. If you're a good girl, you get married to a man, you have children, you don't talk about sex, you don't really have an orgasm. I mean, my God, maybe you don't work, or maybe you work, but you only work certain hours because you got to take care of the kids too. I mean, there's, it's such a limiting, and then the politeness, the manners, the having to take care of everybody else's feelings. This has led to an epidemic of burnout, and craziness. And women who feel like they're just on the hamster wheel of stress and pressure. And that looks like being a good girl, not complaining.

This is where that dark side of resilience comes in, which we're going to talk about. But this is where we become so isolated, being the good girl, not admitting that we're on the verge of collapse because we are supposed to hold everything for everyone, hold everybody's hopes and dreams, and be the good girl. And it is exhausting to be the good girl. Exhausting. So when women are meeting with me, they simultaneously want to keep the good girl image because that's kind of become an identity and like, I kind of still want to be a good girl. But it's in the releasing of that, that suddenly you're like, “Oh, I don't have to do it this way that I've been programmed since I was five years old, I can actually tell somebody No. And that's a full and complete sentence. How wonderful for me.”

Jen Rafferty:
Right? And that is where the transformation lies because what happens is we get all of these ideas from other people about even what the word good means. And so we live and operate within a box as if there's you know, you can't see me because I'm on audio right now. But I'm like making this box shape around my head. And that's just kind of how we see the world through this box. And once Yeah, we'll do a little Vouge. Yeah, I think that's more appropriate.

Liz Svatek:
My Vouge hands, I couldn't help myself, I did…

Jen Rafferty:
I like that much better. But that is where the limitations come from. And we walk around with these blinders on in all directions. And we can't actually see outside of ourselves until we have somebody else to kind of show us how we can start to remove some of these things, which I think also underscores the importance of having somebody on the outside like a coach, for example, or a therapist to hold up a mirror, right?

Liz Svatek:
I mean, yeah, I'm sorry, but I can't read the wine label from inside the bottle.

Jen Rafferty:
That's it!

Liz Svatek:
I need you, Jen to say, “Hey, Liz, have you ever thought about this? Have you ever thought that this might be an old identity and something that's actually limiting you? Have you ever considered that?” I need somebody to ask me questions. I mean, this is what's so funny. Like, who asks us these things? We're not sitting around drinking our wine with girlfriends having these talks? Well, unless they're you and me because we're coaches.

And that's what we do. But, you know, like, regular people are not having these types of conversations. And if you do, it's like, “Did Liz just say that?” But this is the kind of work that coaches do. Coaches really kind of ask these important questions that lead you to be your own guru and get to your own solutions.

Jen Rafferty:
Right, and it's so interesting, we don't talk about it when we're their girlfriends, because that in itself is taboo, which means we're not being good anymore.

Liz Svatek:
Boom. That's it right there. Bad thing right there.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And then the cycle continues, which I also have to mention here, again, just to make this super explicit. This is why I work with teachers, because the teacher workforce, what is a more good girl job than a teacher, right? It's mostly women.

Liz Svatek:
What is a better good girl job than a teacher? So you could just carry your good girl, write into caring for students and sacrifice the shit out of yourself, Jen, so that you have nothing left.

Jen Rafferty:
That's it. And that's the message that our students receive. And really, that's what this is, while we're talking about adults. This is actually really about the kids who are growing up with these examples of what it means to be an adult in this world. And the examples that they're getting are not sustainable, because let's face it, many of us who are living this hamster wheel lifestyle, we're not happy. And we all deserve more than that.

You kind of figure this out in your own path. Can you share a little bit about your story and how you came to this reckoning moment in your life when you realize I thought I had it all but actually second thought, I feel like there's this thing that's not quite complete here.

Liz Svatek:
Yes. You know, it's not a midlife crisis. It's usually a cry for reinvention. I've had reinventions at 20 and 30 and 40. But I think the reinvention and the kind of what I thought was a midlife crisis at 49 was my biggest one because that was the one I said “Well, shit all the things I've been chasing I already have now what?” I have it I have a husband, I have kids, I have a nice car, I have a nice house, I have nice clothes, I just knew that there was more. And in this all this chase that I've been doing, I wasn't happy while I was getting all those things. So I was like, Well, I'm not happy. And I feel like there's more, but I'm terrified. Because I don't know what the more is like I've already chased all these external things. So I know all that's not it.

So it was actually quite terrifying to realize that the more was actually something internal, it was something inside, it was something of a feeling I had inside that I was going to have to let go of an old identity, that was the perfect wife, and mother and house and all these things and say, “Okay, I'm just going to put everything up for discussion, and see what I really want to do.” Where do I really want to be? What is my life really want to look like, so that I can really enjoy myself?

And that started with a podcast that led to me becoming a coach, all the things that I was terrified to do, frankly, and didn't even know if I wanted to do them that I just ended up embracing once I started accessing this little girl doing this work of my little girl, asking my little girl, what do you need right now? What wouldn't be really fun? How can I bring you along because ultimately, we have all left our little girls behind. We had to for survival. We had to. We couldn't survive in the world, in this big bad world with bringing the little girl but bringing her with me now.

The choices become clearer even the way I parent becomes different because now I see it through her lens. I have a more compassionate lens, because I'm looking at it like how must that feel to her? How did that feel when she was 16? When she was 14? It helps me tremendously. So that reinvention was the beginning of everything.

Jen Rafferty:
And I love that reinvention because that's actually a common theme that people talk about on this podcast. And it doesn't matter what the macro topic we're talking about is, reinvention always seems to pop up in one way or another. And I think the more we talk about it, the more we're able to give each other permission to give themselves permission to rewrite your story.

That reinvention is one of the most beautiful gifts you can give to yourself. But with that being said, and I'm speaking from my experience, and I'd love to hear your experience, it's messy, it is painful. It is not always pleasant, to say the least. So there's a lot of big ugly sobbing and snot bubbles that happen. And you know, that was for me. And I would love to hear some of that mess, which is where the growth and the shift happen.

Liz Svatek:
Yes, I mean, shift happens right there. I think we're afraid of the mess. We're afraid of the darkness. But some of this is a rebirth. And what is a rebirth, you're in the womb, it's dark, you can't see shits. You're planting seeds, you can't see the plan, you don't put a seed in the ground and say, “Oh, here's the flower, right?” There's a certain amount of a leap of faith where we don't even know what is going to happen and we're just kind of, especially when we're shedding one identity, and we're moving into another. We don't necessarily know what that other one is.

We don't really have a road map. And I think that's what stops people. They're like, “Oh, but it's not all lined out. I don't know what it is.” It's like no, no, no, that's part of it. Part of this is, I know, I'm not bad anymore. I know that's not working. And so I'm just going to turn myself in this direction. And I'm going to let some things go and I'm gonna let some things happen. And I'm also going to fall on my face and snap a bubble and cry and feel it and just kind of let myself go there. Because we don't know what it is we are leaping without a net. But really, the universe is our safety net. So we're really not, but it feels that way. It feels really scary and very dark.

Jen Rafferty:
It does and there are two things I want to just hit on right there. You can't possibly know what comes next. Because it's new. That's the whole thing, we want to predict because that is how our brains keep us safe. There are scripts that are involved that our brain writes for us. So we know we follow the script, and this will happen and this will happen. And if you're walking into an unknown identity, there is no script, there are quite literal blank pages. And I also want to just touch on what you said about the universe as your safety net, because that phrase and of itself is sometimes difficult for people to understand and you really hear.

And for me, this is how I explained it, I would love to hear how you explain it too, it's even if you were to just stay still for a second and feel the gravitational pull, pulling you down into the earth, from your feet all the way up to your head. So you have this ability to stand upright on the spinning Earth in this great big universal space that we have. That in and of itself, it supports. You are not dead, you are very much alive. And I heard that from somebody at some sort of trauma conference I had gone to. And I thought it was a beautiful analogy of what really the universe has your back or the universe is your safety net. What that actually means is that you're never lost. You're never gone, you're always actually supported.

And I would love to hear how do you explain that to people who are not sure about what that means?

Liz Svatek:
I say your soul is on a vacation, your soul chose to be here. And we are labeling it good or bad, right? But your soul doesn't do that. Your soul’s like “I'm here with Jen, Jen is the coolest, I love her. So Jen right now just left her husband or whatever she did. That is so crazy and her life. But this is actually cool for me. Like I get to experience this,” like our souls are not in a place of judgment. Our souls aren't over here going, this is really terrible. Our souls are like this wild ride of this woman's life, this is the greatest thing in the world.

And so when I think of my soul on a vacation, I think my soul knows what it's doing. It knew what we were going to do when it got here, it shows me for a reason. So there's a direction I'm going in that I can't possibly know. And control is an illusion anyway, we have no control over anything. When you say you're a control freak, you're hilarious, you really can't control the damn thing.

So I just think that the universe, having my safety net is just knowing my soul is on this wild ride that it chose with me. And that there is long as I'm not over here judging what's good and bad. As long as I'm saying to myself, What is the universal truth? What is the universe one for me kind of like tapping into that higher level of thinking, then all these things that I consider bad or not great or when I feel like I'm by myself? That's, I know that that's really not the case. Really, what the case is, is that my soul is having a rip-roaring good time, and it's on vacation.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, and all of the ups and downs of when life gets super lifee. So there's this element of and this is also something like because the neuroscientists talk about this too, of having your soul in your meat suit. That comes from a lot of the neuroscience there. I mean, in those layman's terms, actually, in some of the workshops I've been to, which is cool because it takes it out of that woo space for me and puts it also in academia and it, and it can live in both. We are these energetic spiritual beings in this human body and navigating through that. And as you said, I love that of releasing the judgment of good or bad, but the alignment of what feels the most on the path. And if you're quiet enough, you can feel that

Liz Svatek:
And the little girl knows.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, So there's this book, right? This is the best.

Liz Svatek:
How many times have you been, you have a project, you got a shit ton of stuff to do And you're like, this little voice says, I want to go outside? And you're like, No, we have to finish this. We only have until five. And then we have to go get the kids and you got to make dinner. But the little voice says, I really want to just go outside, just Can I go outside for like five minutes? That's your little girl. So like, when you're paying attention to that, then your whole world is a different world. What if the little girl is like, I don't want to make dinner tonight. I want to just order out. I mean, honestly, there's a little wisdom in there that we deny constantly. That is our connection and our alignment.

Jen Rafferty:
100% And it's so funny, you just brought up dinner, because…

Liz Svatek:
…because you don't want to cook dinner tonight?


Jen Rafferty:
Oh, I, you know what I used to love cooking dinner. And then I got to a certain point in my life where I was like, you know, I just don't like doing this anymore. And I started listening to her and that little voice. And I don't often do it anymore. I mean, my kids still eat, I still eat. But I'm not spending an hour and 15 minutes in the kitchen anymore. And then dinner takes what, seven minutes for everyone to eat, and then maybe an extra three to talk about our day. And then I'm standing there doing a bunch of dishes. No, thank you. And so the way that I even operate dinner has changed because I am now listening more to that voice because I got quiet enough to hear it.

So can you actually talk a little bit about that? Because we cannot hear that intuition of our little girl, as you call it, and her if we are so busy in our mind-body. How do we get quiet?

Liz Svatek:
Well, first of all, we're addicted to being busy, right? Because that stillness is really scary sometimes if you have not spent and I only say this because I lived it, I was scared of stillness. I was like what's going to happen when I stop talking and moving because then I'm going to feel all these feelings Jen, and I was not really available for that. I was like I don't need to feel all these things. I want to just keep going and keep drinking the wine and just let it all go. And you have to start small because it's very intimidating when people go meditate when people used to tell me that Jen, I'd be like you know what, go shove, like shove it like I hate you.

For people who are typing and busy like I was, you have to so start small, like, you can start with meditation where you just open your eyes, you're like, “Oh, I'm awake, okay, let me close my eyes again, and just like, go internal for two minutes, or let me go outside for three minutes and just look at the trees for just three minutes.” That's just the beginning of trying to just get that stillness. Because once you get a load of that, it starts to feel like a vacation, you start to feel like you've gone to Hawaii for five minutes of meditation feels like a trip to Hawaii, if you can get that into your body.

But when you first do it, it's terrifying. Because a lot of thoughts are going to come to your head, thoughts like this, “I don't know if I like what I'm doing anymore.” “I don't know if I like this guy anymore. I'm really not feeling like a good mother lately. I feel like my kids are spoiled.” Some things are gonna come to your brain that you don't like. And I think rather than resisting those things, and then they become huge and like a billboard on the highway, and they're scary.

If you can lock into that stillness a little bit, if you can let that in a little bit and start to just let those thoughts come, let those tears come, take the air out of the tire, release that pressure a little bit in the beginning, you're going to feel so much better. And part of that whole emotional releasing thing, which I think terrifies people is that they don't understand that if you don't let the tears come, you can't feel the joy. Like for years, I was like, I just want to feel the joy, I'm going to cherry-pick this, I don't want to I don't want the sad stuff. I just want the good stuff. So I would just be focused on that. And I would not let myself cry over anything.

Now that I let myself cry, if I want to snap at all. If I want to throw a tantrum on the ground, let my little girl freak out, rage, whatever it is my capacity for joy, My love capacity is so much bigger because I've carved out a space where when those tears fall out, the joy comes in.

Jen Rafferty:
So beautiful and it's so true. There needs to be first, safety around that which you kind of touched on to make it safe for stillness and safe for the release. And a value shift of I value my emotional well-being more than the dishes, the dinner, the getting kids to soccer practice on time, because when you do those things, you will meet them with more joy because your capacity is then bigger.

And my question to you is how do we start to shift our values to really honor stillness and honor, emotional release?

Liz Svatek:
Well, part of this is that Darkside resilience thing.

Jen Rafferty:
So let's talk about that.

Liz Svatek:
So this whole definition of resilience has been used against us. And I don't think women are really aware of this, because there's really to me no difference between the 1950s housewife and this resilient thing. It's a box, it's just another box they’re putting us into it. Because when we're resilient, quote, unquote, we're not asking for help. We're not feeling emotion. We're so resilient. We're just pushing through. So part of this is a huge paradigm shift of realizing that when you are feeling emotion and releasing emotion, that is really true resilience, that is letting yourself heal and feel and letting things move through you and being able to actually handle whatever's coming for you. Because you realize, like, “Oh, I handled that, like I'm capable. This is okay. Like, I survived that, I'm okay,”.

But this whole resilience is like holding our breath, and not letting us feel, not letting us have its judgment. It's the perfection of the June Cleaver and the making of the dinners with the apron on and this resilient. This blonde girl that works out, she's ripped, she works out, she's got her kids, she's got a successful job. I mean, my God, it's just the new version. It's our like, 2000s version of our June Cleaver. And I think when we drop that and just say what's really true is I'm an emotional being and I need to have emotions, energy in motion, I need to let that out. There's a judgment around that. And that's back to the little girl too, is that little girls they feel things. They don't care about how things look. They care about how things feel and we need to get back to that.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, I've shared this story before. I don't think I've shared it on the podcast before. My daughter who's almost nine. When she was six, seven, and a little into eight, the whole neighborhood knew when she was pissed off. Everybody knew. But you get to a certain age where feelings like rage, anger, profound sadness, and frustration still occur but it is no longer appropriate for you to have that temper tantrum where everybody knows how you're feeling.

And we are not explicitly taught how to handle our emotions in a way that's productive and safe and healthy. And that's really what we're talking about here, is when we value our emotional release, what we're actually saying is we value ourselves and our in our humanity. This is part of what it means to be human. And because we haven't explicitly been taught the way to move about this, no wonder why we have no clue how to do it, and no wonder why it feels so scary.

So all of those things, if you're listening, and this is resonating with you, it makes complete sense. And there's nothing wrong with you. And if it's not serving you, here's another way.

Liz Svatek:
Yeah! And let me say, we've all been wounded by the past. I mean, our parents did the best they could we do not blame the parents, I do not blame the parents. But our parents had some limitations. And a lot of times, our little girls were flooded with all this emotion, and didn't know what to do with it, then, because they didn't have a place to put it. They had a disempowered parent or a falsely empowered parent, and they have all this emotion, they don't know what to do with it.

And then we grow up to be these adults that are still not really knowing what to do with our emotions, and mimicking our disempowered parents, and then bring that down to our kids like that. It isn't cool to release your emotion and be ragee. It's not cool to cry, and all of a sudden, and that's what they were told us and then we were like, “Okay, that seems to be what it is like, that's how it goes.” Only now are we waking up to the fact that my God, if that kid is having a tantrum in the mall, I'm not blaming you, Jen, I'm saying, well, that kids have an emotional release. I celebrate this child right now,

I always make jokes about when I see somebody in the pair in the airport and their kids losing their shit. This just happened on the way back from Orlando. I said, I love how powerful she is, and that she is just releasing this right now. And the parents looked at me like, “Oh, it's crazy.” But I said, “This is so amazing” like, giving them that reframe. Because really, that's what it is, they're releasing, and you know what, it's all okay.

Jen Rafferty:
It is okay and even as you're saying that I'm feeling some things in my body, because part of this too, whether you're a parent or a teacher, we wrap so much of our self-concept and our self-worth, in what our children, our students are doing and they are children. They are children, and they are figuring it out on their own. And they don't live in the same limitations that we have learned and believed about ourselves.

And to your point, this is kind of how we started this whole interview is when we connect back to that inner child, we start to have that empathy for what's happening and open the doors for more understanding and acceptance, instead of all of this gross judgment that we throw at ourselves and other people, because let's be honest, where has that gotten us?

Liz Svatek:
Oh, no zero places and the shame, it's like the shame funnel came from the parents of the great grandmas, the shame funnel, just like keeps going down, down. And I have definitely shamed my daughter, I have shamed my daughter for having really intense emotions. And then I thought my god, like this is just uncomfortable for me, I'm not used to holding space for another person's emotions because no one held space for mine.

So this is just a new thing I'm learning. I'm learning how to hold space for my own emotions. I'm learning how to hold space for teenage emotions, like we're all on this learning curve. The worst thing we can do is shame the shit out of ourselves and say, “Oh, my God, I'm doing it wrong, blablabla, it's more about the awareness of these emotions like you said, are part of the human experience. And that when you don't do that when you don't let that out, right, we've seen what's happening in the world, these people with their pent-up emotions and the actions that they're taking. So that's the actual other side of it. So which would you rather have? The people who are safely releasing emotion working through some things, or the people who absolutely have that rage as a constant undercurrent and are out there acting it out all over the place, including students in school

Jen Rafferty:
100%. That's really it and what I think is so important as you go through this journey of awareness and different realizations about yourself, and this path to just more alignment is that it has to happen within the community because, within that community, so much of that shame dissipates because you become a part of this place where other humans are literally expressing the same things that you are feeling, and it is no longer about you, you are not special. This is the human experience. We all experience this which I think also creates this oneness about one human being to another human being living this human experience.

For those of you who don't know which most of you don't, Liz and I met through some of these circles where we got our coaching ourselves and started exploring this together and we spill our guts out. I don't know what your day-to-day life is. But I know some of your innermost, deepest emotions that you've poured out and vice versa. Because we have created this safety within the community. And whatever you do whatever path you go on for your own healing, I do encourage anyone who's listening to do it within the community that is essential in this process.

Liz Svatek:
Oh, that's the whole basis of my business and your business too, Jen. I mean, I don't feel that women can heal the same, you didn't get hurt by yourself. You weren't by yourself, and you were hurt. A lot of the ways were hurt are from other people. So when you heal with other people, it's even more powerful. Because the first thing you want to do is when you're in a miserable place, isolate, and lock yourself in your house. I'm the worst mother, teacher, whoever I am the worst person in life, like, no one has experienced this before. And you just want to be by yourself. It's like the people who are choking, they want to go off and die by themselves. Meanwhile, you have to come back so people could actually save you.

So I think when we are in a community, and we're getting that reflected back, like that mirror, as you talked before. Then I'm like, Oh, I hear your pain. And I hear you expressing something and I say “Oh my god me too, me too Jen. And then I feel so seen, I feel so loved, I feel so cared for. Because I realized that my experience is not unique. It is one. It's a common experience. Because we all are going through similar things. They may not be exactly alike but we've all experienced not-enoughness, we've all experienced feeling that loneliness, feeling like something's not available to us, we've all experienced those commonalities. They just kind of dressed up in different ways.

Jen Rafferty:
They are and when you share, I feel seen. And that's really what most of us want anyway, we just, we want to be seen

Liz Svatek:
Yeah, we do. And guess who really wants to be seen, our little girl,

Jen Rafferty:
Your little girl! I knew you’re gonna say that.

Liz Svatek:
But honestly, this is why I say she is the key. I think we've been kind of dabbling in this inner child thing. But I think this is the WHOLE thing. Because if you think about it if you just operate from that space of asking your little girl and saying, “Well, what would she want? What would she need right now?” She would want to be seen, she would want to be held and understood. And she would want somebody to tell her it was okay. And she would want to like to have a friend like when you went to like camp or whatever, you'd put her arm around a girlfriend, and it'd be like you two against the world or you like hold hands at the movies. I mean, we just had this awesome female sense of community. And we need that back, we need to be able to have that feeling because it is so powerful.

Jen Rafferty:
It really is. It really is. And it does have to happen within the community because that's how we roll. We don't live in isolation. So you're 100% Correct. And I do want to touch back again. And just one other thing you said about resilience because this is something that is near and dear to my heart because we do wear the resilience badge proudly. And like I shared with you when I was on your podcast, I remember being in a therapy session. And my therapist had said, “Jen, you're one of the most resilient people I know. And I just left that feeling so mad.

Like I don't want to be resilient anymore. Because resilience implies just surviving. And not dead is too low of a bar for me. I don't want to live there. I don't just want to be hovering over not dead. That's resilience. And so I hear you about the dark side of resilience. I think it's important that we redefine or embody a different space of thriving where the magic starts to happen. Because if we're just constantly resilient, we're in survival mode.

And nothing can be created or even joyful in a place of survival because we're in protection mode, and I don't want to live there and I don't want other people to want to live there either.

Liz Svatek:
No, and you know, I think what's funny about this warrior woman thing is that I guess most people would be like warrior women, your warrior women community Well, isn't that resilience? But I have redefined that warrior woman because, to me, a warrior woman is in touch with her emotions in her heart. That's the difference.

I think some people have this like, picture of a woman in combat or a resilient woman when they think of a warrior woman. But I'm talking about somebody who is so in touch with their internal life that they've literally understood and can connect to their little girl just by closing their eyes even and just like drinking it in and that's where I think if we can go in that direction if we can head more towards the warrior women maybe then this like a really that internal love of my warrior woman, my kid inside my little girl inside versus this resilience thing, I think that that's the turn that I'm trying to get women to make is that they don't have to hold it in. And they don't have to be because that badge is really fucking heavy.

That resilience badge weighs about 100,000 pounds. It feels just as heavy again, as a 50s housewife, those women were fucking tired and exhausted. And we're on the edge of their sanity. We're back there again, Jen, we're back. And I think we just keep dressing it up and making it different and rebranding it and still putting women in this little box, and I am sick of it. I want women to feel and heal and feel good and actually be able to feel the joy and feel the sadness and feel the rage. Because that is the full expression of ourselves. That's the full deal right there.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, we can't just cherry pick like you were sharing before. And redefining, I think the word strength too, where strength is leaning into the emotion, strength is letting out the rage, strength is crying when you feel like you need to. My kids were at a baseball game the other day. And it was a great game. I don't normally like baseball. But this one happens to be a really good game, we went into like extra innings and things. And then there was fireworks afterwards. And we were so close. And I love fireworks. I love them. And since my divorce, since COVID, I have not had the same emotional reaction to them. I've just been like, you know, whatever. I've been a little jaded.

While the other night when we were sitting at this fireworks, I started tearing up like my body just and I reconnected with that joy again, “oh, there goes again.” And I really feel that it is a testament to the work that I wear. Now the tears come and I just let them and because of the healing, I have been able to reconnect with more joy. And the point of this is both of my kids saw me tearing up with these big booming things in the sky like mommy crying again. And yep. Okay. And that's it. There was no like, what's wrong, there was no laugh at mom, it was, nothing as if there was no issue with this.

And what's really important about this, why I share this is because when you heal and change, you're changing the paradigm for the kids in your life, whether they are your own, or whether they are your students. So when my kids then feel the need to release some liquid from their eyeballs it’s not a concern that something is wrong with them or wrong in general. It's just a release. And that's really where the generational change happens. So I'm so excited that you do the work that you do in this world. It is so necessary.

Liz Svatek:
I love that story, Jen, first of all, I love fireworks too. But I love that because you're modeling for them, that emotions are beautiful, and it's okay, and you can spontaneously cry. And my kids do that too. Sometimes they'll make fun of it. And now they're getting so used to it. They're like, “Oh, here she goes again.” But they're not saying it. They're just like, Oh, now they've started to be like, oh mom and you cry like now it's become more gentle. It's funny at first when it would happen, they would like make fun of me.

And now I think they're realizing like that this actually is a strength. And they're starting to respect it more. So bravo that we are modeling this for our kids so they can have the freedom to just absolutely break down when they need to and get that beautiful release.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, it is beautiful. And that is strength. For sure. So now that we're kind of on this topic of kids, and this generational change, I need to ask the same question that I asked everybody on this podcast is, Liz, what is your dream for the future of education?

Liz Svatek:
Here's my dream Jen. that teachers are paid as much as Lebron James. That's my fucking dream, Jen, I want the teacher business to be the most well paid, well respected, like just this beautiful environment where people are like, they can't even wait to be teachers because they're so compensated for all the education that they have. And they are encouraged to go out and learn new things and go to other countries and bring things back and like literally, just I want teachers to be free.

I want free teachers who are not bogged down by the limitations of these tiny fucking salaries. And these small minded ideals. I want teachers to be what they are, which is these incredible, expansive, beautiful, incredible guiders who are spending all of this time with our kids, we want them to feel expansive and wonderful and bring all this goodness from all across any channels that they feel like they want to swim in like that to me is a dream, a free teacher who's just free to explore and bring all this goodness back to my kid.

Jen Rafferty:
Hmm, I just want to sit in that for a second. Ah, that feels like honey to me and so beautiful. And, you know, here the tears are coming. I know you can't see them if you're listening, but they're there. I really believe and this is why I asked this question. You know, when we share our dreams out loud, they are one step closer to becoming our reality. And we need to take care of the people who take care of the next generation. I wish your dream comes true Liz

Liz Svatek:
This dream is coming true. I'm gonna just tell you right now. I am here for this.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. Well, between the two of us. I think we're off to a good start.

Liz Svatek:
Yeah, I mean, this is where it starts, right? Like when we the work that we're doing the work you're doing, especially supporting these teachers, letting them know that they should be supported, that that's something they deserve, and that they have one of the most beautiful, important jobs. And that job is not going to go anywhere when you're a burnt out mess, right?

And yes, the system is set up right now in a way that is actually making that worse. But that there are other tools other ways other conversations, other schools that are starting to get on board and realizing that when you have an expansive, happy, supported, beautiful teacher, you've got it all.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, you really do. Well, that is also my dream. And I am excited every day to make that a reality. So Liz, thank you so much for your time, your talents, can you just share a little bit about how people can learn more about you and see how they can work with you?

Liz Svatek:
Yes, well, you just can go to lizsvatek.com, which is my name lizsvatek.com. You're gonna find all the things but I do have one really fun announcement. Jen.


Jen Rafferty:
Let's hear it.

Liz Svatek:
One thing I'm going to give you is a free quiz. Because I love a quiz like nobody else I really do. But I created this limiting beliefs quiz, because people are always like, well, what's really holding me back? And I don't know. And all that stuff is in our subconscious. And we really don't know, we think we know. But we don't. It's never what we think. So I have this amazing quiz that I'm going to give you I'm going to give you a link. It's a free quiz.

But I'm actually going to do a little camp this summer, because I just figure all our little girls need to go to camp. You're the first to hear this, Jen, I am doing a Warrior Women Camp. So I'm going to take your little girl to camp for two weeks, and you're going to have the time of your life. So if your kids going to camp or if your kids are in college or wherever your kids are, I'm gonna let you go to camp this summer. And we're gonna have a real good time.

Jen Rafferty:
Oh, I love camp. Let's do it.

Liz Svatek:
Yes. So I'll give you that link too.

Jen Rafferty:
Amazing. All of the links will be in the show notes for everyone's convenience. Thank you so much, Liz. It's always so fun to talk to you.

Liz Svatek:
It's so fun talking to you. And I love the work you're doing keep going Jen. Keep going, Jen. Keep going, Jen!

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, the little girl had me sees it. Oh this little girl! You with that one? I will I will. I will. I will. I will. So if you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to Take Notes Podcast, leave a great review, share with a friend. And we'll see you next time on take notes.

Incredible, right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going on Empowered Educator Faculty room on Facebook.

Have you ever felt like you're stuck in a rut and can't seem to break free from your fears and limiting beliefs?

Well, I've got some exciting news for you!

In this episode, I interview Lauren Best, a certified hypnotherapist, who shares how hypnotherapy can help you access your subconscious mind and release those emotional blocks that are holding you back.

We discuss the significance of self-love and discovering a supportive community that fosters your personal development. Lauren also shares her own journey of discovering hypnotherapy and how it helped her build a connection to her intuition.

Do you want to learn more about the power of hypnotherapy and how it can help you achieve personal growth?

Tune in now!

Stay empowered,

Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Lauren:
Lauren Best is a Certified Hypnotherapist and Provoker of Possibility. She works with Curious Individuals, Creative Entrepreneurs, and Conscious Companies who are ready to explore how they can do things differently in their work and life. She creates spaces and experiences that share with them the tools to dive into a world of self-discovery and growth where they can unlock an even greater potential inside of themselves using their subconscious minds. Lauren has collaborated with public and private sector organizations, small businesses and solopreneurs across the globe from Canada to the UK, Netherlands, Australia, The United States and Singapore to help these folks move through the noise, envision and come up with new ideas, and create bite-sized plans of action that support their desired area of transformation.

Connect with Lauren:
Website: lauren-best.com
LinkedIn: Lauren Best

Download the FREE Visualize a Life You Love Hypnosis Audio

TRANSCRIPT:  Jen Rafferty:
How can we leverage alternative methods of healing to create a balance in our practices of overall well-being? Well, by using techniques like hypnotherapy, we can quiet the critical mind and access our subconscious to make new choices about how we want to live our lives and navigate our world.

I am so excited to share this conversation with you. And as someone who has experienced hypnotherapy myself, I can say that it is a really powerful tool to explore the limitless potential. That is you. So make sure you grab a pen and take notes for this important episode.

And get ready for all the new programming that's coming out of Empowered Educator this season. Head on over to empowerededucator.com/workshops to get the professional development that you've been waiting for. I know that you want to be an educator and live with more peace and ease and calm both in and out of work, but you never believed it was possible for you. Well, Empowered Educator workshops will show you the way and here you will get concrete strategies to live the life you want. So grab your seat at the next Empowered Educator workshop by going to empowerededucator.com/workshops

Introduction:
Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed, and overwhelmed, and frustrated.

But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you.

In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook.

It's time to take notes


Jen Rafferty:
Hello everyone. Welcome back to another fabulous episode of Take Notes. I am here today with Lauren Best, who is a certified hypnotherapist and provoker of possibility. Doesn't that sound juicy? I love that she works with curious individuals, creative entrepreneurs, and conscious companies who are ready to explore how they can do things differently in their work and life.

She creates spaces and experiences that share the tools to dive into a world of self-discovery and growth, where people can unlock an even greater potential inside of themselves using their subconscious minds. Lauren has collaborated with organizations from Canada to the UK, the Netherlands to Australia, the United States, and Singapore to help these folks move through the noise and envision and come up with new ideas and create bite-sized plans of action that support their desired area of transformation. Lauren, thank you so much for being here.

Lauren Best:
Thank you for having me. I know this is going to be a great conversation. We've been having great conversations off the air, so I'm happy that we get to share what we've been talking about and connecting over. So thanks for having me.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, am excited too. Lauren and I met through another coaching program, I guess we're both a part of and through the radio group, which is been a really neat opportunity. And so through that organization, you know, we kind of get to explore what other people are doing kind of on the outskirts of where our own expertise is. And I was just completely curious and interested and enamored by your work and just your beautiful, calm demeanor and how you approach some very difficult conversations sometimes. So can we talk first about what is hypnotherapy?

Lauren Best:
Yeah, well, I'm glad you asked right off the bat because when a lot of people hear that word hypnosis, they begin to think of the things that they've seen on television, the guy with the mustache and the, you know, spinning pendulum or whatever it might be, or people jumping up on stage and barking like chickens. And while those might be different modalities of hypnosis, Hollywood has had a great twist on what hypnosis really is.

But for me, I love to see hypnosis as hypnotherapy, really as a really great self-development tool that people can use to essentially allows you to just really relax to such a deep state of calm and relaxation where we can relax not only the body but also that, you know, front part of our mind, that critical mind that we always have at the forefront and we're able to just relax so deeply that we can surpass that critical mind and access our subconscious.

And I'd like to think of the mind like an iceberg. The tip of the iceberg that we see all the time is that critical mind and being able to access what's beneath the iceberg, beneath the water is really where our subconscious lies and our unconscious minds. And that's where a lot of our limiting beliefs and our stories that we've learned and beliefs in general exist. So being able to use hypnosis of that as a tool to really surpass that critical mind, get that access to our subconscious minds that really allow us to develop different forms of suggestibility where we can feed the mind different suggestions to understand what it is we're ready to let go of.

If there are any fears that are holding us back or any of these old stories that exist, You know, it gives you, as the person who's experiencing hypnosis, the ability to really look at what's there and say, what is it that I'm ready to let go of? What is it that I'm ready to reinforce? What affirmations can really help me to reaffirm the reality that I want to live in and the beliefs that I want to have so we can release childhood stresses. We can reconnect with our inner child there. We can work on increasing confidence and connecting to intuition. That's where I started, really.

And for anyone who hasn't tried hypnosis before. There is just so much beyond our imaginations really connecting to our subconscious mind can, you know, allow us to explore things that we hadn't even imagined possible. And that can be scary to a lot of people. So think just knowing that when experiencing hypnosis, it is something that you get to be in control of and where it is really different from what we see on TV is that no one can make you do anything as the hypnotherapist ethically. Like, that's not what we're here to do.

And also it really isn't possible because anything that even once we surpassed that critical part of our mind, anything that you believe is your belief. So if I tell you something that you just truly don't believe in really doesn't sit well with you, even though we've surpassed your critical mind, the part of the mind that tells you why you can't do something or why you shouldn't, or how you have to do something in a certain way, you're still going to question that. So just know that it is an experience that you get to take the lead on. And someone like me is a hypnotherapist is my job is to just really guide you to a place of safety and comfort and calm and relaxation and guides you to the places that you're ready to go to, whether it's facing fears or rewriting stories and whatever that may be. So there's just so many possibilities that it can lead to. That's really scratching the surface of what it is. But we can take it.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the Fear Factor because I want to actually talk about that first. There's two things that I remember when I first came to hypnotherapy that I was like, Whoa, you're going to do what? I came from a place of academia and brought up in a family where not only did we not really talk about uncomfortable emotions, but this idea of letting go of what I perceived as control was very scary. And on top of that, seeing all of the things on TV and movies of what hypnosis was did not make me feel comfortable. So I remember I was in this workshop one time and the trainer there was saying, okay, we're going to do a hypnosis right now because I don't have any questions like, Yes, this is me, me, I have a question, you know, and I needed very specific instructions as to what she was going to do to create safety because I didn't feel comfortable. And so once I did, once I was like, oh, okay, this is kind of just like a deep meditation.

We got it. Then I was able to kind of open that door. But then the second piece of the fear that I think sometimes comes up is the fear of what you're going to find underneath the iceberg, right? Because 3 to 5% of our existence, as you kind of alluded to before, is done with a conscious mind, which means up to 97% of our existence happens underneath the water and sometimes even approaching that with curiosity of, okay, what am I going to find there can bring up some fear for people. So can you talk a little bit about that and how to navigate that? So you're at a place to even be comfortable saying, okay, yeah, I can give this a try.

Lauren Best:
Yeah, I love that you shared those fears because they are so, so common, and even things that I would have questioned many years ago as well. And I think this idea that uncertainty already exists in our life. So, so much like we can plan within our businesses, we can set goals for the year or even within our jobs, we can put together a project or a lesson and then the people show up and you're trying to teach something or you're sharing something and people are asking questions about this when that didn't even cross your mind or someone over here is just like not having it.

You know, there's so much uncertainty. We can plan, plan, plan. And then until we actually continue living life, that's when we can really see how things change and how uncertainty is always going to be there. And I think that was a big part of the work I did for myself using hypnosis and I do with a lot of other people is just like realizing that within our lives there already is so much uncertainty and exploring that with an open mind can really bring a lot of comfort back into your life and a lot of security and confidence and clarity. But I think one of the things that I love people to know from the first time we work together is that you don't have to let go. You don't have to let go of everything. You know, you don't have to tell me all your secrets like you do not have to do that. To say that you have to 100% surrender to this process just maybe isn't like it wouldn't feel authentic to you. And so that's perfectly okay. And it's really a process where you can allow yourself to go at the pace that feels comfortable.

And even when people come to me and say, I think I've been having this. Or this block and they get really specific. Not everyone comes to me with very specific fears or blocks that they're ready to let go of. And even when people do and we go into that state of hypnosis and we really begin looking at that fear of that block, it's still my job to question you and say, Are you sure you're ready to let this go? And it can be something that you might in hypnosis think, Actually, no. Like this has been serving me in this way, and I can reframe the way I use this fear or this block to take my power back. But it doesn't have to be this experience of letting go of everything you've ever known. It can get there if you want it to, and perhaps over time, but it gets to be your experience. And I think the great thing about hypnosis, too, is that it really is an effective and safe tool to use to really solve those emotional blocks and mindset issues.

And there's a statistic that says that there's a 93% recovery rate, and I like to use that term loosely recovery rate, but I'm not sure. But just after six sessions, you can really move through a lot of those emotional blocks and mindset issues that you've been experiencing versus other behavioral therapy, which with 72% recovery rate after 22 sessions, is really a different experience. But it's one that's letting go. Doesn't have to like, you know, we can ease into things. You can do your own pace and just really know that sometimes your mind well, all the time I've seen that your subconscious mind is always going to show you exactly what it is you need to see and feel and experience. And getting to that state of trust, I think can be difficult unless you've experienced it for yourself. So I could keep going on as well about just trust yourself, you know, it's that easy. It's not that easy. I didn't trust myself for a long time to really make the right decisions, whether it was in my life or in my business.

I didn't have the clarity. I really didn't have that connection to my intuition. And I think hypnosis helped me build that back. But for a lot of people, yeah, it's not going to be there right away. And that's perfectly okay. You know, just know that it is a process and this is a way. But just I think for me, it's important to create that safe space for people knowing that I'm here to guide you and this is your experience, whatever it is you experience. And if something comes up also, our subconscious minds will show us these things out of nowhere sometimes. But you don't have to deal with it if you don't want to. You can say, I'm not ready for that. Like, let's go over here. It gets to be your control. So there is a lot of control within the experience and it really I think it's just getting that information, like you said, because a lot of the time we don't really realize that. I didn't realize that before I ever tried hypnosis for myself.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, and it is information and that's, I think, something for me that has been a very important reframe and how I feel safe in going into that subconscious space because, you know, you don't relive these painful things. You know, you're revisiting them in a way that it's data so you can learn from them. Because when you go into this place, these could be suppressed and repressed memories that you don't even realize were the things that caused the story or caused the belief, which then all of a sudden rears its head while you're wondering like, well, why can't I never keep enough money in my bank account? Or why whenever I get close to someone, I push them away? Or why do I feel like the world is a scary place? When you start to do this hypnosis process and you start to look at really the roots of when you learned these things or when you chose to believe these things. This is about finding the data so that you can make conscious decisions as the full-grown adult you are to move forward in ways that you want to move and essentially live the life you want without any limitations.

And I think that's really a profound result of doing some of this work. So I wanted to ask you, too, because you kind of alluded to you came to this work in a certain kind of way, too. So can you share a little bit about your story and how you found this space of hypnosis and then decided that you wanted to make this part of what you do for the work in this world?

Lauren Best:
Yes. Yeah. So like everything that has been really pivotal for me in my life, it was another thing that really came to me not accidentally, because I was kind of seeking it out, but it was when I look back, just another example of in my life where things really fell into place without me even having those expectations for it to happen. So I previously and still do, you know, within my work, it's a big part of the work that I do now. I was a design thinking and human-centered design business transformation consultant, so I would help organizations and businesses design new pivots.

So a lot of that was brainstorming new business ideas and coming up with a strategy and really testing different, you know, business ideas or services. And I was doing that over in Singapore at the beginning of the pandemic, and then I think it was August. Well, I ended up back in Canada in August 2020, but there were a few months before when I was in that transition, I was leaving my job there and there were a lot of traumatic things happening in the world. But also personally, to me, that I thought, okay, I don't know what the heck I'm going to do next, but I know it's not here. I know it's not this environment. I know it's not in this country. I had no plans of going back to Canada, but I went back and my family was still there. So I ended up back in my childhood bedroom, which I never imagined. And, you know, it was that part of the pandemic where we really didn't know what was going to happen next. Things were opening up and then not opening up.

And it was really confusing. So I ended up back in Canada with a huge identity crisis of like, what do I do first off? Second off, I, you know, was healing physically from a surgery I had had a few months before and then emotionally just had gone through a really toxic workplace and my nervous system was all out of whack. And I didn't really, like know to the extent until I really went back home and realized my life. Not one thing in my life is the same as it was, you know, two months ago. And I don't think I realized that at the time. Now I can look back and see that. But really, I didn't know what to do with uncertainty. I really, really didn't know what to do. And I just thought, okay, let's apply for jobs. But, you know, mentally I was really struggling. I wasn't yet at this place where I was able to process a lot of the trauma that I just experienced. And so it was a really slow process of battling with this idea of like, I need to get back into the world, but also know I have the privilege of being in a safe place with my family and not having to worry.

And perhaps I can work on my mental and physical health and really this push-pull that I really struggled with for a really long time. And when I was still back in Singapore, I had a friend who reached out to me and said, You should start your own business. Like you can work with my friend who's this coach? And I had met with her when I was still there, and it wasn't until probably a year later that I actually started working with her because I was really thinking, okay, I actually can't go back into the workplace because the thought of being in a toxic environment or even working 40 hours a week was really, really scary to me because of what I had gone through. So I joined this coaching program, but then it was still like, okay, there's a lot going on here. How have I designed so many businesses and services for other people? I could design the perfect strategy, but my ability to take action with confidence is nonexistent. And it was really hard.

So my mom had shared with me this summit, and so I attended the summit really with no expectations. And there was this woman who was a hypnotherapist and sharing about hypnotherapy. And, you know, she was working with coaches at the time and just really her energy was beautiful. And I just thought about the energy that I want again, I don't have that energy anymore and I need help. It really took me a long time to realize, like, I can keep spinning in circles. I can keep doing things the way that I know right now. But I'm still in survival mode. I'm still in this fight-or-flight. I really need the support. So I started working with her and I was at the same time still designing my own business and really struggling with that, that confidence and trusting myself and believing in myself. And so this hypnosis work really, you know, I thought, Oh, I'm going to start working on these blocks, which are the reason why I can't take action in my business or, you know, redefine my version of success because I don't want to work hard.

But my old stories are telling me that I have to work really, really hard to be successful. So therefore I'll never be successful because I physically and mentally don't have the capacity to do so and unlocked a bunch of things that I really had to work through that I just thought it could be easy to skip over and didn't realize. As you said, it's, you know, a lot of these different stories or things that happen to us can really be that initial point or another thing that our conscious minds have shown us the proof of why we can't do something. So it really was a long process of that. And she, Marcia Gunner, who is the woman who I trained with and who is my hypnotherapist, said, you know, I'm running another course for coaches and I was doing some business coaching at the time already. I'm doing this so that other coaches like you can bring hypnosis and become certified and help your clients in this way as well. And I was still really going through it. I was still really building back up those layers of confidence and redefining the way that I wanted to take action or how I wanted to show up authentically in my business.

And I said yes. And I think at the time, part of me was like, No, you're not ready. But for whatever reason, I took that chance. And it's been kind of my missing puzzle piece, not only for myself but in my business to really show people like you can design the best strategy. I can sit with you and I can see your superpowers and I can help you design the way you want to work based on your genius own. Or we can uncover those layers. But unless we actually do that work so that you believe in yourself, you know, this work can be great, but it'll just take a little longer. Or you might still not feel confident to take that action. So it's been now a really great process of me integrating into my own life and being those few steps ahead really than other people and being able to share these tools and the things that I've been through that can give other people hope to new possibilities for their own lives. Because I think it really starts with this idea of opening ourselves up to experience new possibilities that we hadn't even imagined.

But when we're in that fight or flight and survival mode. The thought of new possibilities is really non-existent. So it's really bringing people to a place where they can feel confident and find their intuition to really see beyond their current reality and design a life that they love. And that's what I am doing every single day. And it's amazing the things that I think have shown up on my door without me realizing I was ready for them or even could have invited these things into my life.

Jen Rafferty:
Well, thank you for sharing that. And that's exactly what starts to happen when you start uncovering some of this stuff. What happens is you literally open up all of the doors to possibilities that you haven't even thought of yet, because instead of being closed and in survival mode, now you are in a place of calm and open to receiving whatever is happening where you can actually see it because you can't even see the things that are around you when you were just focusing on surviving. And I think your story is really important for people to just recognize themselves in this.

You know, there are so many people right now who are teaching, who feel as if they are just running on this hamster wheel, trying to figure out the time to even start figuring out what life is they even want. Right. It's like this inner calling that is there that's really quiet, but it's like there's something else. There's another way. There's something else out there. And I've spoken with so many teachers about this and school leaders and parents and paraprofessionals who feel this. And it's not that you need to change everything that you're doing and stop the work that you have always dreamed about doing in this world. However, in doing this work, you realize how you can do this, this work in the world that you want to do in a way that feels good. And I think sometimes because of the beliefs that we've been brought up with, because of what our subconscious has been taught and told to believe when we were little, people don't actually think that's possible for them. It's also a story that we're told in the media that we buy this new product or we do this to our face or we buy these particular shoes or this house or this car, and that's going to make us feel good.

And we're always chasing, chasing, chasing this dopamine ding that is never satiating. Like that's, I think, the core of this work. And I think that that's really the underlying theme of the story that you told, is that really your joy comes from you. And when you can't access it, that's when you have this beautiful opportunity to work with somebody who can help you access it, right?

Lauren Best:
Oh, my goodness. It's so true. This is your superpower. It's really finding No, I'm finding like pulling out these beautiful insights and really being able to share them in a way that really collects everything together. And I love how you shared that because it really is. And I think. At the beginning of any self-discovery journey. It can be hard to believe that- this all starts with me. This all starts with me loving myself first and giving myself the care that I have been searching for by giving and seeking this external validation or tying my self-worth to the results of other people and how I impact them or having that worth come from that external force.

Because a lot of the times, I was this way, when you look for someone to show you and tell you what you're worthy of, like you'll never get to that place that feels good. It just it's never you can't please everyone and you're not for everyone. And finding that within yourself is that really it's the most important puzzle piece like you said, is having that come from you and it's a journey to get there. You know, we're not programmed to really look inside of ourselves all that much. And if we are, there are those conflicting things that we see in the world that tell us otherwise, which aren't true, but they're there, and it's really easy to allow them to show us what it is we should be doing or what we should find important, or do this or that and be on a specific journey in life that perhaps is dimming our light and dimming our superpowers and our genius zone.

Jen Rafferty:
For sure. And these messages might not be true, but they're really loud and they're prevalence. They're everywhere. So it's hard to ignore. And you said you love yourself, right? And here's the thing, and this is what I've observed, too. I think on the surface, you know when you ask yourself, do I love myself, I think generally people would be like, Yeah, of course. But here's the thing, Do you love yourself to the extent in which you are going to do whatever it takes for you to live your best life with this very short amount of time that we have on this earth? Do you love yourself that much that you are going to ask yourself difficult questions and engage in work that's going to make you think and grow and feel uncomfortable?

Because you know, the end result is you actually living in authenticity and your best-aligned life to then have an impact on this world. Do you love yourself that much? And that means making boundaries, finding your voice, and figuring out what your adaptive behaviors are, which are no fault of your own, by the way. Right. And these are such important questions to ask, which really encompass this question Do I love myself? That's a huge question.

Lauren Best:
Yeah, this might sound very counter-intuitive, but from my experience, we can become so trapped within our lives and showing up in the ways that we think we have to and doing the things that we feel like we absolutely have to do and need to do to getting trapped in this space where it is so important that there are people like you, Jen, doing what you do, creating these spaces for people to kind of escape what it is that they're doing in their everyday lives that they think they should be doing, to give a place in a space where people then go back inward. And why I kind of say it might sound counterintuitive is because we're saying, oh, all of the answers that you already have inside of yourself and you don't really need anyone else's ideas or philosophies or whatever it may be. And we're trying to kind of strip away a lot of that in a different sense. But sometimes like or most of the time and what I've shown myself is I need those spaces in those places where I can ask myself those questions or someone can ask me those questions without giving me the answer.

Because yes, I do now believe I have all these answers inside of myself, but I wasn't able to get back to that place in that belief without really looking for that external support. And looking to those people who aren't going to try and shove all their ideas down my throat, but rather create those spaces of introspection and reflection and self-discovery because it is really powerful. And that's why I think, you know, just what you're doing and creating that space and place for people to be able to do that is so powerful and so life-changing. And there are so many different communities that we can find for that. But finding the right one and knowing that not all those communities that exist might not be the right place for you is perfectly okay. And we can find these groups of people and, you know, even connect to new people through these other communities, from people we meet. It's just so powerful and really can lead us to new places inside of ourselves that we wouldn't have been able to get to on our own.

Jen Rafferty:
Absolutely. And that's the thing and the beauty about this. We make change by being the change within community. Yes, you're absolutely right. We have all of the answers inside of us already. And because of our beautiful nature, that is humanity. We are social creatures who get to connect with other people. And I think you're right, is finding the community that's right for you. So you feel that non-judgmental connection when you are going through the mess, when it hurts when the pain is so big and there are people around you who are not trying to fix you because you're not broken by the way, that are supporting you in your journey as you support them in theirs. And that is, I think, one of the most important things you can do besides recognizing that we are all on this beautiful, introspective journey. That's how we make a change in this world. We do that by finding the right community. And so which is also why I wanted to bring you on here specifically in this podcast for this audience, because I think as educators and teachers, besides the community that exists in this school and then these pockets of social spaces that people have, there isn't often time to find an additional community because my mind goes to, Oh, well, now here's just another thing that I have to do and figure out the time for.

And I wanted to highlight and underscore the work that you do because it's important to know that when you start to engage in this kind of work, it makes everything else easier.

Lauren Best:
Yeah, it really does. And I think that idea that people can have of, you know, and it can be hard work to take that space and time and feel comfortable with that idea of change. And what you're going to be doing is essentially changing your life. But it does it makes things so much easier. It allows you to live more authentically and to recognize when different ideas or ways of working or doing things really are out of alignment from the way that you show up best and the way that you can use your energy in a way that feels good. And I think I'm not a school teacher, but in just seeing the people in my life who are and how much energy it takes and how much of yourself and your time you're giving, it can be like you said, a lot to say, How will I find time for this? Or how will I be able? This is the job and I've made it my own.

But this is the way I'm expected to show up. This is what I'm expected to teach. These are the lessons I'm expected to share. And I imagine it can feel really difficult sometimes to use more energy to think if I switch things up or if I do things differently, it's going to be a lot harder than it is to just be in that autopilot of, you know, I've done it this way or I've been told I have to do it this way, or teaching this way. But really, once, like it might not seem like it now, but once you get to that place of having that confidence and showing up authentically and doing things in the way that actually does feel natural to you, you're right. It can be so much easier, but it's hard to get over that hump in that belief. But it truly is possible. And that's why I love that we are creating these spaces for people to explore and feel safe and not feel like they have to jump in the deep end.

But they can take those baby steps that are going to feel good and that will, with each step, allow things to be easy and aligned and feel really good.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, that's just it. Feeling good. That is such an important question that we don't ask ourselves enough is what's going to feel good right now? Which you know, and that's something now that since I've come to this work, that is always a question that I ask myself and I feel called to even ask myself that more. Because when it comes from a place of joy, that's really where the alignment is. You know what's going to feel good right now. And it's not like what's going to be the most productive right now and what's going to be the most time-saving activity right now. It's what's actually going to feel good. And coming from that place, oh, it is a game changer. But in order to get there, there's a lot of work that goes into it. But it is the most delicious, best growth work that you could possibly do.

So as we're kind of wrapping up here, I can't believe it's already at the end of this podcast interview. Considering your experience and a lot of the things that you've seen and observed, what is your dream for the future of education?

Lauren Best:
I think it's, you know, there are so many things, but I think the biggest thing is that we create more space for people to show up in the ways that feel good. And we were just and I, I want to go in this direction not only because we were just talking about this, but because I've experienced I know a lot of people have experienced you learn something a certain way or you learn that you're supposed to be in this trajectory because this is the norm and I think it's just making more space to not only be critical and ask questions but also that space to allow people to explore how they show up authentically and how we don't have to have all of the answers all the time and know all of the things. I think that can lead to so many new ideas and so much more personal growth.

And I know there has to be a balance in that just based on the way our society is right now. But I think if we can find more of that balance between the unknown and, you know, the factual known things, then I think it'll make it just so much easier for people to show up authentically and continue to learn more about themselves and also share what they're learning with the world because we can learn so much from each other as well.

But just sticking with what feels good for you because that's something I always do with anyone, even with coaching clients, you know, I can give suggestions and I say, if this feels good for you, like think about it, sit on it. Don't feel like we have to be so urgent with taking action and just really seeing what resonates for you and what doesn't. Leave the rest, but pick up what is going to resonate with you. And it's okay to leave things behind and it's okay to unlearn the things that we thought we knew and just be open to that change.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, to all of that. So I have one last thing is how do people get in touch with you and they want to learn more about you and your work and more about hypnotherapy? What's the easiest way and best way? Something that's going to feel good?

Lauren Best:
Yeah, I would say visit my website which is lauren-best.com And there you will find at the top of my website links to the radio show. You can listen to different podcasts that I've been sharing just like this by visiting my blog. I have some writing about hypnosis as well, and if you want to try some visualizations, some hypnosis, or guided sensory experiences, you can also, through my website and up on Insight Timer or on YouTube. I'm going to be putting more of those audios there and my handle is laurenbest_Co. So do check those out. I also have free audio on my website which will allow you to visualize a life you love. So that might be actually the best place to start. So I invite you to listen.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And I've actually done that particular visualization, so I highly recommend that everyone goes to check that out. Lauren, thank you so much for your time and sharing your talents with us today. Really appreciate you being here.

Lauren Best:
Thank you so much. It's been so, so loving and I'm so happy that I could do this with you.

Jen Rafferty:
And if you enjoyed today's episode, please make sure you subscribe and share with a friend and we'll see you next time on Take Notes.

Incredible, right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator faculty room on Facebook.

Do you sometimes struggle to stay present and focused in the classroom?

It’s time to transform your teaching experience and find inner peace.

In this episode, I am joined by Dan Tricarico, a high school English teacher for over thirty years and an author.

Dan shares insights on how to incorporate zen practices into your daily life as a teacher. We also discussed the importance of mindfulness, acceptance, and self-care, and provide practical tips for staying present in the moment.

If you’re ready to take your teaching to the next level, find inner peace, and create a more positive classroom environment, then tune in to this episode.


Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
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About Dan:
Dan Tricarico has been a high school English teacher for over thirty years. He is also the author of The Zen Teacher: Creating Focus, Simplicity, and Tranquility in the Classroom (DBC, Inc. 2015) and Sanctuaries: Self-Care Secrets for Stressed Out Teachers (DBC, Inc. 2018). In his spare time, he enjoys writing, listening to music, reading mystery novels, watching movies, and staring out of windows. One of his first loves is writing poetry, and he has published many poems both in print and online.

Connect with Dan:
Website: thezenteacher.com
Twitter: @thezenteacher
IG: @zenteacher
FB: The Zen Teacher

TRANSCRIPT:  Introduction:
 Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed, and overwhelmed, and frustrated.

But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you.

In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook.

It's time to take notes


Jen Rafferty:
Hello and welcome back to another great episode of Take Notes. I am here with Dan Tricarico, who has been a high school English teacher for over 30 years. He is also the author of The Zen Teacher: Creating Focus, Simplicity, and Tranquility in the Classroom and Sanctuaries, Self-Care Secrets for Stressed-out Teachers. And in his spare time, he enjoys writing, listening to music, reading mystery novels, watching movies, and staring out of windows. And one of his first loves is writing poetry. He has published many poems both in print and online. And Dan, I am so excited to continue our conversation because we've actually talked a lot in the last few weeks. Thank you so much for being here on the show.

Dan Tricarico:
We have. And thank you for having me. I've already learned so much from you, and thank you for your generosity in having me here.

Jen Rafferty:
Absolutely. Let's kind of get into this. So I wanna know why is a Zen Teacher or Embodying Zen? First of all, maybe what is it, and then why is it important?

Dan Tricarico:
Yeah, that was one thing I kind of had to define for myself because I was always interested in sort of Eastern philosophy. And I remember walking, I was taking a walk just trying to, I was stressed out, I was trying to calm down. And I remember thinking, “Oh my gosh, it's just so crazy. Education is so crazy. It's, it's like they want you to be a zen teacher or something.” And then the light bulb went off and I was like, “Oh wait, that's the thing. That's something. That's what I need to focus on.” And the way I define it in the first book, the Zen Teacher is zen is noticing your surroundings in your environment exactly as they are without judgment and without anticipating any specific outcome. So just the mindfulness of being in the moment, just accepting things as they are and noticing them as they are.

And we don't do that. We're very wrapped up in things that happened last week, looking forward and worrying, anticipating what's coming, coming next instead of just being right where we are. And I figured if I could be right where I was in the classroom, things would get a lot better. And at the time, this was around 2013-14, I had 10 years left and I was wondering how I was gonna make it through. And since putting these practices in place, I now have a couple of years left, two or three maybe. And I know I'm gonna make it through. So it worked for me. And hopefully, other people can benefit too.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, I think it's that time when you start counting down years to retirement, that's like a really good indication that something needs to change.

Dan Tricarico:
So 10 was early, is what you're saying?

Jen Rafferty:
No, honestly, I have people who are like only 15 more years or only, you know? Yes. And the truth is we don't wanna spend our careers counting down the days until we get to retire. So then what? What are we waiting for? Let's start today. And I think some of the things that you talked about, just being present is difficult when you're not used to doing that. I think the challenge sometimes is in the practice of being present. So can you speak a little bit about what that could look like and how you practice being present?

Dan Tricarico:
That’s a great question and there are a lot of ways, and for me, it goes all the way back. I was a drama major and an actor, and I know you have a performing arts background and, and singing, you probably went through the same things, where the drama teachers and acting teachers taught us about being in the moment with your scene partner, breathing exercises, relaxation exercises, using your senses, all of those things. And I thought, well, that's what teachers need.

And so I put those in place and especially just to give your listeners a quick example and a practical thing they can take away right now is the idea of using your senses. If you're feeling stressed out, if you feel that anxiety rising, tune into your senses. And there's a great exercise, I've heard it called 555, where you think of what are five things I'm seeing? What are five things I'm hearing? What are five things I'm feeling? Not like emotionally, but tangibly. Like I feel my bum on the chair, I feel the shirt collar on my neck, you know? I feel the glasses on my face.

And then when you go through that litany of things that you're sensing with your senses, it just grounds me. It brings me right back to the present moment. I've stopped thinking about whatever I was freaking out about and I'm right back in the moment. So that's just one thing that they can do right now.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And that's a really simple exercise. And it's true. It's just about really being in the moment of self-awareness because even the word mindfulness has become very triggering for people. It's been very buzzy. And so folks I think conflate this idea of mindfulness with, you know, this meditation practice and everyone's just holding hands and singing kumbaya. And you know, the truth is that that's not really what this is at all. This is about getting out of your head and into your body so you can actually be here now.

Dan Tricarico:
Exactly. And you just mentioned there was a famous counterculture psychologist named Ron Doss, and he wrote a book called Be Here Now. I tried to read it a couple of times, wasn't really my cup of tea, couldn't really get into it. But I love that title and I remind myself, Danny, be here now. Be here now. If I'm freaking out about something, just be here now. And that's such a great mantra to come back to. But you're right, it's very triggering, very buzzwordy, and like a lot of things, that idea of being here now is very simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy. Simple and easy are two different things and it takes a lot of practice. And our culture does not reward, you know, we're always supposed to be striving for something or going, going, going and, I got kind of tired of that, Jen, and I said, I'm not doing that anymore. And so part of that was just being where I was.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure. Well, it's quite literally exhausting.

Dan Tricarico:
Yes, absolutely. You're just worn out.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, we're just exhausted. And then we wonder why it's hard to get up in the morning and we're not motivated to do things. It's we're, we're always busy, go do the hustle, not even being where your feet are, it's being where the next thing is gonna be, which we know the future is completely unpredictable. We have no idea what's going to happen.

Dan Tricarico:
Exactly. I love how you just said to be where your feet are. I'm writing that down because I love that expression.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, that's my phrase. Be here now, but be where your feet are. That's a good one for me. I use that often actually. When I wake up in the middle of the night and my mind starts to race about some things. I take a breath and it's “Jen, be where your feet are,” which happens to be in bed, my delicious comforter that kind of brings me the peace that I need to then go back to sleep. But you mentioned the word acceptance. And I wanna talk about that for a second because when I talk about acceptance, I think sometimes people get a little bit sore about it because they think acceptance means being happy with what it is right now. And that's really not what acceptance is. Acceptance is not just like, “Oh, well, you know, it is what it is.” Acceptance is I am speaking into a microphone, I accept that this is a microphone, I accept that I am here in New York and you are here in California. I accept that. Right? And so coming from a place of acceptance can also bring you into a place of presence. How do you talk about acceptance in the work that you do?

Dan Tricarico:
Good question. I love how you defined it, and I'm kind of right there with you. But then, I would say that there are other ways I look at it too. To me, acceptance is saying this is how things are. We're big in our culture on duality, good, bad, happy, sad, all of this. But things just are, we're the ones assigning meaning to them. And so if we can resist that temptation of assigning meaning, then the stress and the anxiety and the tension can lower because then things just are. And you set a phrase that I always talk about how there's a teacher I work with and it's just his habit to say, oh, it is what it is. And that's just how he punctuates his conversations. But I'm like, I don't think you understand how zen you're being when you say that because it is just what it is.

I was listening today, I was driving it, Paul Simon's song, still crazy after all these years came on, and in the little chorus area he says, I'll never worry. Why should I? It's all gonna fade, you know? And I just was driving along going, that's it, Paul, you got it, you nailed it. You know, I tell everybody everything's temporary, good and bad, right? So if you're having a really hard time, just go, it's gonna end. And it seems like sometimes these things go on forever. But if you can just look at the world and your experience like, I'm here, this is what's happening. If you don't like it, sometimes you just need to sit with it for a while. Think that the current buzzword is just holding space. They call it holding space. But then also it's a dance because it's also what steps can I take to change it to what I do want it to be like. And so accept what is, but move toward what you want. So it's both.

Jen Rafferty:
Right. And I think the thing that came to me when we were saying it is what it is. Sometimes when people say that there is kind of this negative undertone to it, whereas this idea of everything being neutral, it truly is everything. Nothing means anything.

Dan Tricarico:
Exactly.

Jen Rafferty:
Until you give it meaning. And so it's not always, it is what it is. It is the way you think it is. And I think that that is an important thing because like what you said too, is what meaning am I making of this thing? And if it truly is like it is what it is in a place of actual neutral acceptance, awesome. However, and I'm sure you've had these conversations with people and they kind of verbal diarrhea about the latest thing that they're grumpy about, it's like, man, well it is what it is. That's not quite the same frequency you're talking about here. So I think it's important because there's actually a particular instance that I have in mind with somebody saying that, which really stuck with me because it's not just semantics there, it's really about intentionality and it's that meaning, and we do make meaning of everything. So can you talk a little bit about that too? Why do we make meaning about things and how does it interfere or not necessarily interfere? I think, creates the reality which we make for ourselves and maybe interferes with what it is that we actually want.

Dan Tricarico:
Exactly. And we could talk for hours about this, cuz you're going deep here now. But what I thought of when you were talking about that is how when we're in a situation and it's stressing us out and we're aware enough to say, okay, this is because I'm assigning a certain meaning to this, we need to start asking things like, am I assigning a meaning to this? Am I assigning the right meaning to this is the meaning that I'm assigning accurate? All of those kinds of questions can impact your circumstances wildly. And you need to be aware enough and as you said, intentional enough to start to mess around with the meaning that you're doing. But people get really weird about that because we don't like change. We like the status quo. We're worried that we're going to do something that's against our value system. And then that's when we really need to go even that one level deeper and start listening to our conscience is what it's sometimes called intuition. That inner voice. And on our previous conversation, you talked a lot about alignment, and I think that's part of it too. If it starts to feel out of alignment, then either you're assigning the wrong meaning or you're in the wrong situation, or you need to mess around with, well what does this mean to me and what am I calling this thing and can I call it something else? Or do I need to just be in a different place?

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And there are so many places where I wanna go with this, particularly with self-trust, but I was hoping that for the sake of our listeners who kind of want a little bit of a concrete example, can you take us through a scenario in which this kind of situation could come up?

Dan Tricarico:
Here's a super simple one, and I'm gonna be very vulnerable here. In high school, if I had a crush on a girl and I wanted to ask her out, I would go up and ask her out. And if she said no, I said she hates me. Right? That was a meaning that I was assigning to that interaction and that circumstance. So what happened was every time I had to try to ask somebody out, I was paralyzed. I couldn't do it because I had assigned so much pressure and so much meaning to that experience that I couldn't do it. And then what you learn hopefully over, I don't know, 50 years maybe, is that hey, you know, there could be a million reasons for the no, but you don't have to assign it that meaning, and then what happens is it becomes easier to hear that no and then to move on and to try again. And that's, I mean, I used the asking somebody out example, but anything that you try where you risk rejection, where you risk a no, where you're not sure if it's gonna work out, it would fall under that.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure. And that's a great example. Thank you for sharing. We all can relate to that Dan.

Dan Tricarico:
I guess it's a little universal.

Jen Rafferty:
You’re not alone. We've all been there. In that example, we could just use that example in your adolescent brain too. There are now neural connections that now solidify this story. Your brain actively looks for other evidence that affirms this. And so any no, whether it be a no from a teacher as you get older, a no from a colleague, a no from a boss, a no from a parent, a no from a spouse, whatever, all of a sudden there's now that meaning that's connected to it of this person doesn't like me. And so this is where it becomes really a, I'll use that word again, universal problem because we're stuck in a story.

Dan Tricarico:
Exactly.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And we're stuck in the meaning. And so what I'm hearing you say, which is, you know, aligned with so much of the works that I do, is once we start to notice these stories that we are subscribing to, we have this beautiful ability to just unsubscribe.

Dan Tricarico:
Exactly. Just like a bad email, just unsubscribe.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. It's just a bad email, just unsubscribe. We don't have to believe anything you can believe. Whatever you wanna believe in, knowing that that's really where your power comes in, because whether that person says yes or no, it has absolutely nothing to do with you. And you can decide then how you're going to respond based on, like what you said, your values, your intuition, and how that aligns with who you wanna be. Right?

Dan Tricarico:
Right, very true. And it applies, as you said to so many situations that we would encounter. And my thought was when you talk about changing the stories, I must have been in my, I mean I'll be 60 this year in September, and I must have been in my fifties before I realized you could change the story. And that was a life-changing moment. So where were you when I was 16? That's what I want to know.

Jen Rafferty:
We, that's why we're doing this podcast right now, Dan.

Dan Tricarico:
To help other 16-year-olds. That's all right.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And here's the thing, and you hit on, you know, my mission. And you know, this is something that you believe in too. When I think that teachers and school leaders and office staff and custodians and bus drivers and nurses and paraprofessionals, anybody that works on the school campus, you are the linchpin to this work. Because when you start embodying this work and really understanding what it means to own your story, to co-create your own reality, to decide how you wanna feel, and then do the thing that aligns with that feeling, then all of a sudden the students see the adults in their lives living with calm and peace and joy as you know, fullest expressions of themselves. And that really sets the tone. I mean, that's the business that I'm in, Dan.

Dan Tricarico:
Yeah, that's awesome. And that's contagious to the students. And they'll pick up on that. Can I take a moment and connect two of the ideas that you've talked about this idea of narrative, that story in your head with acceptance is, and this is where I get a little militant and, and get on my soapbox a little bit, but you were talking about the stories and education and so many teachers accept the stories that are told about “you need to do it for the kids, you need to sacrifice.” I didn't have this word when I started teaching, but now we would say, as educators, we are totally gaslit about, there's so much gaslighting that goes on about what you should or shouldn't be doing as a teacher, and you can change that narrative. And that's what I had to do. And I had to stop listening to all of that stuff.

And the one thing that comes to mind, Jen, is the meme that I've, I've seen a million times. And when I first saw it, I thought, that's the greatest thing I've ever heard. It says teachers are in it for the, uh, not the income, but the outcome. And I thought that was awesome. And I'm a teacher and I, it's so noble that I'm doing this and I'm sacrificing, and I put the back of my palm against my head, and I just felt like a scarlet O'Hara. And you know, I thought this is the greatest thing in the world. And then like a couple of years ago after I had been doing the Zen teacher work for a while, I was like, what? You know, I was like, that is the most gaslighting meme. We're in it for the outcome and the income, and we deserve to be paid like professionals who have commensurate experience and training and doctors and lawyers and stuff like that.

Or wherever we would fall on the training and experience. And we're not, and I have to say, and I, we can go down this road of you, we don't have to go down this road. I think it goes all the way back to when teaching was primarily a woman's job, and they were just like, yeah, we don't have to pay you a lot, you know, 76 cents on the dollar, or probably then it was, you know, less of course. But I think it goes all the way back to that. And so you go into teaching knowing you're not gonna make a lot of money, versus other professions, but also there's this narrative that needs to be busted. I say we need to stop listening to that narrative yesterday and move forward. And so we as teachers have been accepting, and we were talking about acceptance in a good way, but here's acceptance in a bad way. We've been accepting this story that we don't deserve any more, that we can't have anymore. And that's, I'll say baloney because I'm sure this is a family show.

Jen Rafferty:
It's okay. You can say bullshit. That's fine.

Dan Tricarico:
That’s bullshit cover bullshit. Oh yeah. So that's my little soapbox. But yeah, I mean, you know, teachers and educators, and like you said, anybody who works in education at any level change that narrative. You don't have to accept it. You don't have to be that person. They are gaslighting you. Okay? I'm done.

Jen Rafferty:
No, I don't want you to be done because this is important. I'll hop right on that soapbox with you. So there are so many things here. I'm like writing down furiously, so I make sure that I hit on all the things I wanna talk about. So first of all, accepting stories that don't serve us. I think that this might be semantics, but I wanna be really intentional with my words about this. So believing stories that aren't serving us. Because acceptance to me in my world feels, okay, because it is the way things are right now, I then can take action myself. I think sometimes when we feel like this, oh, well you just have to accept this right now or not accept this or in this almost aggressive or anger. Cause something from anger, right? There's this finger-pointing and blame that happens.

But you and I both know that change doesn't actually happen when you're pointing fingers at other people. It just doesn't, nobody is going to take things off of your plate. Nobody is going to wake up one day and say, oh, here's all of the back pay that you've all earned for the last several decades of your no one's doing this. And so in understanding the stories in which you've come to believe accepting, okay, this is actually what the reality is right now. So now I can decide what is my next move. I think that's really important.

So then you can say, all right, unsubscribe to this, unsubscribe to this. No, thank you for this and no thank you for this, because that's when we can actually start moving forward. And I think another story that is extremely dangerous, which goes along the same lines of what you were just talking about, which I speak about in my Ted talk, is that teachers are not superheroes.

It's the same thing that we just are expected to live up to this ideal of being these immortal and indestructible creatures where we are human beings that have human needs and need to be taken care of in a society that values other humans because we are teaching other humans. And so it is dangerous, these ideas that are floating around and at first, as you said, makes people feel good. And I will tell you, I subscribe to that superhero narrative myself because I had to believe it. Because if I didn't believe it, then I would have to really start questioning a lot of this chaos that was going on in my life, both in and outta school. But if I was a superhero, I could just take it,

Dan Tricarico:
You just handle it.

Jen Rafferty:
I could just handle it. And so I needed that narrative. It was out of emotional and mental safety for me.

Dan Tricarico:
Well, plus you're surrounded by people who are doing it, and then you look weird if you don't do it.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, it sounds good. Yeah. Let's be superheroes. So I wanna just also say like, if this is something that you have been subscribing to you, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with you.

Dan Tricarico:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should look at that.

Jen Rafferty:
It’s in the air. It's in the air that you breathe. Right? This isn't your fault. However, we have a responsibility to ourselves to wake up. And I wanna also talk about the second thing that you mentioned about teaching being “women's work.” And I'm so glad that you brought that up because I actually had a beautiful interview with Amelia Nagoski, who is the author of Burnout, and that's episode 25. If you wanna take a listen to that after you listen to this episode, obviously. But she also talks about that too, that the structures in which the school systems are set up are based on the fact that education is “women's work.” And so this idea that we not only don't need to get paid as much, we are expected to give of ourselves in a way that disregards our own human needs. It's a really interesting phenomenon, which gets my fire going. And so I'm glad that you brought that up too, because that is relevant to what's happening right now.

Dan Tricarico:
Well, I think it's, I do bring it up occasionally when it fits the conversation because I think it's important for people to see that a man realizes that and that a man is not okay with it. I'm the father of two daughters and they are powerhouses and they're go-getters and they will do anything they want to do, but they are functioning in a society that values them less, pays them less, and all of that. And I knew that even before I had kids, but I don't think we talk about it enough, and I don't think we do enough about it.

Jen Rafferty:
Right. We don't. So here we are talking about all the things that need to be spoken about.

Dan Tricarico:
Absolutely, absolutely. And I love the word you used that I wrote down was dangerous. These attitudes are dangerous because they hurt people, they burn people out, they cause people to not take care of themselves. And what I love about what you do and why I think our platforms and messages are so complementary is because when I was going through this, I had a wife and kids and a mortgage and all of this, and I was like, I don't have the bandwidth to change the infrastructure. Even though I recognized there were massive problems that the education profession is broken. I said I can only change myself. And so I started working on that. But you're working on the infrastructure, you're, you're working with schools that can change their culture, their system. And then, so I think if what we are doing as it does, I know it does, has this ripple effect, then maybe we change the system and we change the individuals and things get better.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And here's the thing, systems don't change until people change.

Dan Tricarico:
There you go.

Jen Rafferty:
And so while, yes, it seems sometimes like for me what I'm doing, it looks like it's coming from that organizational standpoint. It has to be at the individual level because you are the only person that can make a change, which is why pointing fingers doesn't work. I can't work with a school district where a principal or an administrator doesn't want to do the work themselves because it will not work. It doesn't matter how much your teachers have buy-in, if at the top you don't want to do the work yourself, forget it, and vice versa. It just won't work. And so when we go in and we have these conversations and these workshops and these training with these people, it is very personal because it has to be because you're right. You can't go in and change infrastructure. Literally, the only thing you can change is yourself.

That's it. And I remember I read this one book, this uh, I think it's called a Burnout E Epidemic. And I was like, oh, cool, I'll read and learn and get some more content. And I'll tell you, it was all of this like organizational hating, no worries. You know, here's what bosses need to be doing, and here's what you need to do for your staff. And you know, the top needs to do this and you need to, and the thing is, that doesn't work. It doesn't work. You have to be the change. You have to, and I think that's what makes programs like mine and yours so successful because we are the embodiment of the work. I never say something to somebody that I don't practice myself.

Dan Tricarico:
That's so important. And I try to do the same thing. The trouble though is that, and I'm sure you've seen this, is when you are in there and you're starting to change yourself and you're calling out the emperor's new clothes and saying, “Hey, there's a problem here.” You look like the curmudgeon, you look like the grumpy one. You look like the complainer. And I tell people, teachers that I work with, that you're gonna get funny looks, you're gonna ruffle feathers, but as you've said, you have to take care of yourself. And as you said, nobody's gonna come up to me and go, Danny, you look tired, why don't you take a nap? Right? I need to do that for myself. And so when I say no, or when I say I've had enough of that committee, or the little soapbox I'm on right now is that I'm getting so many requests for information on students from various other people at the schools, the psychologists, the special ed advocates, the counseling department, you know, whatever, all this stuff, all people just doing their job, just trying to work on student success, nobles intentions in the world.

But when I, in three weeks am getting 25, 26 requests to fill out these forms of these psychological batteries and like, what am I supposed to plan or greater teach, right? But there's no comprehensive centralized system for requesting this information. So it just gets dumped on some individual teachers. So somebody's gotta say something about that. And there are laws in place and there are, well, you know, we can't change this and we can't change that. But I'm like, well then Ralph Waldo Emerson civil disobedience, I'm not doing it. When Rosa Parks stood up, she was breaking a law, but it was a bad law, right? And so we can't let that be the excuse that that's the way we've always done it, or there's a law or whatever, and teachers just need to say enough.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And that we, you know, we can talk forever about that. But I do wanna talk for a second though. You said no one's gonna come up to you and say, Dan, you know, you really could use a nap. Go take a nap. In my world, that's what I want. I want people to look at you and be like, Hey, you look like you need a break. You wanna go take five? I got you. Like, that is the organizational structure of the school systems that I want, because those schools are going to take care of their kids. And that's the generational change that I am interested in. Period.

Dan Tricarico:
Exactly. That's wonderful. And I know you are already making that happen, and I know you will make that happen. And it'll be, you're a little bit younger than I am. It'll be after I'm out, but that's okay because the greatest thing and why I devoted 30 years of my life to this is the ripple effect that we have generationally is incalculable. And I can't think of another more important job. And somebody asked me, or like there was some interview thing I was doing and they said the, the question was, is teaching worth it? And I said, absolutely. Teaching is a hundred percent worth it. Teaching is the most important noble-ist thing I can think of to do. The education profession, however, is a different story. And the education profession is broken. And there are two different things. Teaching is not the education profession. And the education profession is not teaching.

And so what I do, I talked about ruffling feathers is I go into my classroom, I do my little thing, I do my shows, I do my, my teaching. The kids learn in my way with my style. And I teach very intuitively. And a lot of other teachers don't understand it and they don't quite know what I'm doing. Or in some cases think, well, that's not what we're doing, so it must not be as good, you know, which is also a whole other thing. But I don't care. I'm in alignment. I trust that what I'm, with my experience and my training, I know I'm doing a good job. I do look at the data and the assessments and say, okay, we're making progress and that's all that matters to me.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. So with all of that being said, I need to ask you, what is your dream for the future of education?

Dan Tricarico:
I'll split it in two and I'm gonna kind of piggyback a little bit on what you said. 10 years ago, my dream would've been very selfish to make it through. That would've been my dream for education. But I love what you said about the generational change. And I would love to see the dream for the future of education, be in a place where, of course, all students are learning, but where the teachers are taking not only taking care of themselves but are taken care of both. And the story I tell sometimes is I was having a conversation with my publisher and he said, you know, on your blog and the tweets that you're sending out, you know, it's getting a little strident, it's getting a little soapboxy, you know, you gotta be careful. You wanna maybe dial it back a little bit. I said, okay, important feedback.

Let me go think about that. And I thought about it a couple of days, called it back and I said, you know, I understand what you're saying, and here's the thing, I'm gonna stop complaining about how teachers should be taken care of and I'm just gonna start taking care of teachers. And the difference to me is that I thought, well, who am I? You know, like I'm just this guy, I'm just this teacher, this, you know, silly teacher in San Diego. What leverage do I have? But when I started talking about it, when I started modeling it, as you said, and doing it myself, people take notice. And so the more that we can get that everybody kind of moving in that direction, that's the dream for the future of education is teachers who are taken care of.

And I had something I called the Zen Teacher Retreat. It was the only live event I ever had, and I'd love to do it again. I said, what's my goal there is? I want teachers to be listened to and feel pampered. And I thought cuz that's something I never felt. I never felt either of those things. That's also part of my dream for the future.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, please. More of that. So if people wanna learn more about you and your work and your books, what's the easiest place for them to get in touch?

Dan Tricarico:
I would start with the website, which is zenteacher.com. You can sign up there to be on my email list and get a little booklet that I have on how to reduce stress. I'm on Twitter @thezenteacher, and my Instagram is @zenteacher.

I guess when I signed up, I was late to the party and the was already taken. I experimented with TikTok, but I got a little bored with it. So I don't do that as much anymore, but it's there @thezenprofessional. And I think those are the best ways. Then you can email me at teachingzen@gmail.

Jen Rafferty:
Fantastic. And what's the best way to get your book?

Dan Tricarico:
Amazon. Just Amazon. You can reach out to me if you want if you're one of those people like I am who just, you know, wants a little note inside.

Jen Rafferty:
Great. Fantastic. All those links will be in the show notes. They'll be super easy for people to get in touch. So Dan, thank you so much for your time. It's always so great to talk with you.

Dan Tricarico:
Yeah, I enjoy talking with you too. And you got me fired up. So let's go do this thing.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, yes. And for those of you who are listening, I hope you are also fired up. Let's go do this thing. Change happens when we change ourselves. So if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend, subscribe and write an awesome review and we'll see you next time on Take Notes.


Incredible right? Together we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible and it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

Feeling burnt out and overwhelmed as an educator? Want to prioritize your well-being and make a positive impact on the lives of the children you serve?
In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Katie Raher, an expert in social-emotional learning and well-being, and founder and CEO of Constant Love and Learning. Katie shared some incredible insights with us.
In our conversation, we delve into the significance of prioritizing our own well-being and how it directly influences the well-being of the children in our care.
Katie opens up about her personal journey, recounting the times she neglected her own well-being as a teacher and school psychologist, and the pivotal moment when she recognized the importance of self-care.
Today, through her business, she guides and empowers educators and changemakers in cultivating their own well-being and fostering social-emotional learning.
Ready to rejuvenate your passion for teaching, prioritize self-care, and create a positive ripple effect in the world around you?
Tune in now!
Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Katie:
Dr. Katie Raher is the Founder and CEO of Constant Love and Learning, an award-winning teacher turned School Psychologist, a Certified Trauma-Informed Breathwork Facilitator, and a Kimochis Certified Trainer. She helps soul-led educators and change makers cultivate well-being and social emotional learning within themselves, the children they serve, and their larger systems, so they can expand and sustain their impact while living their best lives.
Connect with Katie:
Website: constantloveandlearning.com
IG: @constantloveandlearning_
FB: Constant Love and Learning

TRANSCRIPT: Introduction:
 Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed, and overwhelmed, and frustrated.

But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you.

In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook.

It's time to take notes


Jen Rafferty:
Hello, and welcome back to another fabulous episode of Take Notes. I'm here with the fantastic Katie Raher, and I am so excited to share this conversation with you today. She and I met through another person who I was actually doing a podcast with, and it was just very serendipitous, and we were able to chat. Our missions we're super aligned. The work we do is so aligned, and I couldn't wait to have her on the podcast.

Katie is the founder and CEO of Constant Love and Learning, an award-winning teacher turns school psychologist, a certified trauma-informed breathwork facilitator, and a Kimochis® Certified Trainer, which we'll definitely be talking about. Dr. Raher helps soul-led educators and changemakers cultivate their well-being and social-emotional learning within themselves, the children they serve and their larger systems so they can expand and sustain their impact while living their best lives.

Hi Katie!

Katie Raher:
Hello Jen. I'm so glad to be on the podcast.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, I'm so glad you're here. Yes, welcome, welcome. So I would love for you to share how did you come to do the work that you're doing right now? I mean, we all kind of are traveling on this path of being a teacher and like figuring ourselves out and you decided to take some different turns. So I'd love for you to share that journey with us.

Katie Raher:
Yeah, absolutely. Because if you had told me 10, 20 years ago that I'd be doing this work, I would've laughed and totally thought you were out of your mind. And so, you know, now here I am leading work focused on wellbeing, really centering that as the key piece of being able to affect change in children's lives. And as part of that, not only do I lead others, but a big part of that is me also honoring my own well-being on a regular basis. And it wasn't always this way.

So historically I was more of the poster child for self-neglect, pushing through everything, putting yourself last, don't even add yourself to the list. I was the person who when people took breaks or set boundaries, I was like, “Oh my gosh, they're so lazy.” That was me. I was the person who said that. And so it's, I've come full circle here, like it's very different, very different.

So how did I get to this point? I started my career in education as a teacher, very dedicated like now to really increasing educational equity for kids. And I went into the classroom and I worked 60 to 80-hour weeks. I was the person who was like, “Yeah, let me be in charge of that committee.” And “Yes, let me try to do this thing.” And “Oh, there's not this resource. That's okay, I'll make it.” And this was pre-Google, pre-Pinterest. It was like, I'm just gonna figure it all out, you know, at all costs. And I also never asked for help. I was like, let me close the door. I'm gonna pretend like I've got it all together even though I definitely didn't have it all together. And I would go home and I would cry and I would be exhausted and sacrifice my sleep and all these things.

I would skip bathroom breaks and eat and all the things I know a lot of educators out there can understand. And my health started to tank. And as a teacher, I loved all the kids, but the kids who also particularly spoke to my heart were the kids with the biggest challenges. And so I was like, you know what? I just think I need to go back to grad school. The reason I'm getting sick and the reason I'm stressed out is I just don't know enough. So I was like, “Oh, let me go get a Ph.D. cuz that'll be somehow easy-ish.” You know, that's what I told myself. So then I was like, okay, lemme go back to grad school. And I became a school psychologist with a very big focus on prevention and general education within school psychology. And so, I became a school psychologist and I was like, okay then let me just kill myself to help the teachers and also do direct support for kids.

You let me do that. Oh, and then, by the way, let me add motherhood to the mix. So, lemme have some kids on my own. So it was just, this was the journey and I just kept self-sacrificing, kept giving. And even though my health had healed a little bit because I had taken a little tiny summer break between being a teacher in grad school that was, you know, I actually slept and did all the things. I still never thought, oh, I should take care of myself. And then, you know, all through grad school and all the other things, I added onto my plate again. I never thought let me take care of myself or never thought that adult well-being was of value relative to supporting kids. I just thought we all needed to push through. And also in my own training, while I got training as a school psychologist to support adults and kids in their wellbeing, I still never really got training in let's take care of yourself too in this process.

And so in 2015-16 times, like around that time, my health just continued to tank. Like there were little cues all along for the, the past however many years of my life, right, that I had kind of ignored the messages of my body and, but things just started to escalate. My body started to get louder. I kept ignoring, I kept pushing through and other things started to happen.

The chronic disease started to set on and I was just like super anxious all the time. And my anxiety kept spiraling. My health got worse and worse. I was like having chronic headaches and migraines and physical pain and I was just a wreck. And I would also go to the doctor and they would tell me, “Well, your labs are okay. It's all in your head.” And so that felt really good to be gaslit in that way. Uh oh. Yes.

Jen Rafferty:
Actually, there's another episode with Dr. Beth Westy that dresses just that. So I'm glad you said that too.

Katie Raher:
Yeah. So this is like all my experience and even in schools I would go to work and I would put on my happy face and like even though my body felt like it was just breaking, I would just pretend like I had it all together so I could support everyone else. And so then eventually I hit a pretty dark spot in life and I also lost my voice for a month related to some of my chronic disease stuff. And I was just; it was a wreck. I was spiraling, spiraling, spiraling. And I got to a really deep dark place, and it was whew. I was like, something has to change. And after this sort of, “Oh my gosh, something has to change” moment. The next day I went to work. It was in this IEP meeting, I was leading, mind you, because I had no voice.

I was leading it with, I would type in something and then it would talk for me. And I had skipped lunch. Very common for me. I had skipped a bathroom break even though I was like my bladder was super full and I couldn't think straight. That was just sort of my norm. And I started to just like my whole body was convulsing. I'm sure it was a related part of my blood sugar crashing. But it was like, then I had this out-of-body experience, and it was this, okay, can't do this anymore. Like, nope, your body is yelling, can't do it anymore. And it was the moment at which I was like, things have to change. So in my own journey, I started to seek out help and alternative means of help. So one of the first people who I got help from was my acupuncturist, who's still my acupuncturist to this day.

And then just started to surround myself with more support. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I have to say no to things because I have to say yes to myself. And so then on my own journey, I found out I had autoimmune diseases and it was just like things were unpacking and I really did a lot of work, mind, body spirit to heal myself and to come back home to myself. And on that journey, I started to realize, in the work I was doing with teachers and children, how common this was in schools. Like I wasn't the only one doing this. And most of my work as a school psychologist was doing mental health consultations with teachers in this sort of preventative way. And we would always talk about the kids and we would co-create an understanding of what was going on with a kid or a situation in a system in the classroom.

We would co-create intervention plans. It was never me, my version of consultation, it's never me coming in saying you have to do this to make this better. It's coming and bringing in the expertise of the teacher. And I had never included a sense of, like, what about you? And so we would come up with these intervention plans and then they wouldn't be implemented. And then my target was like, okay, well what else could we tweak to this intervention plan? And really the missing piece was the fact that these teachers felt like crap. They were also exhausted and had their own health problems and at home, spouses, parents, and children of their own who were, needed a lot of their attention or whatever it was. And so when it came down to it, like in the real moment, it was hard for them to implement what they were very capable of implementing because they felt terrible.

They themselves, their own regulation, their own nervous systems were so fried. And so then it was like, okay, let me add in some of the well-being pieces that I started integrating into my own life. And it shifted things. People were like, oh my gosh Katie, uh, it's so good to talk about this. Oh my gosh, yes, I'm feeling terrible. And so it was like they were taken care of and then it was so much easier for them to then take care of others or for them to even admit what was it that was complicated or hard for them. This is why it was hard for me to work with this kid in this way.

And so they felt more comfortable and safe to say, yeah, this is what I don't know, this is where I need help. They increased that confidence like, oh yeah, I feel safe. I feel seen, I feel heard. And so that was really kind of how it all came to be. And then I really just wanted to create a business where I brought this work to educators. So now I offer a variety of services to support educators in their well-being. I still support educators with the social-emotional learning tools that I've done sort of longer-term before I took care of myself. Cause I do think that's also part of educators' wellbeing is being empowered with actual tools that like directly help, you know, like you know, strategies for the kids. And it's the other pieces too. So making educators feel seen, heard, supported, you know, it's really that care for the caregiver piece. And then I'm sure we'll talk about other services and how these other things unfolded in terms of the services I offer. Because they really, what I offer is the tools that I found to be most helpful for me and the people you know, who I was kind of supporting in my days where I was really playing to figure out what really supported folks. So yeah, so that's how I got here.

Jen Rafferty:
Amazing. And it's so interesting, right? And I refer to this as a lot. It's like this Wizard of Oz moment where you realize that the things that you wanted most are right in your backyard. That's just how this is. And the things that are most helpful to the people that you serve are the things that you embrace and embody yourself. But we're not taught to hold up a mirror. In fact, we're often discouraged from holding up that mirror. And I think that's where we end up getting ourselves in a lot of trouble because we're always looking out, we're looking out for answers, we're looking out for our own value and affirmation of our worth. And at the end of the day, we have all of these things already. And if we just took a moment to pause and ask ourselves what do I really need in this moment? It might be a very uncomfortable question at first, but it is probably the most important question you could ever ask yourself. Would you agree?

Katie Raher:
Absolutely. It's my favorite question whenever I start, like if I'm starting a series of things with a group, the first question I ask is like, what do you need? Like, what do you really need? And I asked that in part because, so when I was on my own journey of coming back to myself before I led this work, I was attending these beautiful women's circles. And the first question always in, I would, I would do these 10-week series, and it was always, what do you need? And the first time I got asked it, all I journaled about was, I don't know. Is it even okay for me to ask that question? Shouldn't I be asking what other people need? And I had to grieve that, and I felt like a failure. Like how do I not know what I need? And I had all these layers of feeling guilty, feeling shame about it, feeling like how do I not know this?

But then, feeling guilty for even thinking I'm worthy of considering this. There were so many layers in there. And so it's always an interesting question to go through on a regular basis that that particular place that I would do that work ended up closing down the woman moved away. It's a question that especially when I'm in a darker place, I always come back to that question as like the most important question. I mean that's really to me what the root of self-compassion is, is like checking in with ourselves like what do I need? And that I'm worthy of pausing and just pausing and seeing what comes.

Jen Rafferty:
Right, the value of that pause, even up and of itself, is really important. And I'm really glad that you went there and talked about all of those feelings that you had of grief and shame and mourning and confusion almost. You know, for me, a lot of times, answering that question is a lot of resistance, although I, too, have done this work for a long time. So I'm much further along now in this journey. However, every once in a while, I'm in a place where it still kind of comes back to, I don't know.

And you know, I think one of the most important pieces of that particular question and answering that is giving yourself grace and also being okay if the answer for right this moment is, I don't know, because through this work you will know and you'll become more familiar with what it is you need in any given moment. And these are even really important questions not to ask all the time when you're sitting in quiet and you're able to like being by yourself, these are some of the things that you need to ask yourself in moments of heightened activation, right? When there's a student who's giving you a difficult time instead of reacting right away. A really beautiful moment that you can take for yourself is first of all valuing the pause and then asking yourself, well what do I need in this moment? Because the more you're able to answer that question, the better you are able to serve that child.

Katie Raher:
Absolutely. And I think our go-to is what do they need? And obviously, we're considering that when a kid is dysregulated, but ultimately what they need is for us to bring our calm, to bring our regulation, to bring our attunement. And so, like, ultimately, the question is, what do I need at this moment to be able to do that? So it always comes back to that. And when we don't do that, what you know then, as any of us who've been with the kid, we're all humans. So we've all had moments where we're not necessarily, we didn't use the pause. We've all had moments where we did react, and then things escalate, and then they escalate, and we escalate. It's like, oh. And so it's so interesting how so many training I've been to throughout, you know, I've been in education for 20 years now, grad school, PDs, whatever, there's always, they'll we'll talk about what to support with kids, and then it's always like an afterthought. Like the last five minutes is like, oh by the way you gotta take care of yourself because that's how you do all this other stuff, right? And it's like, to me it flips, it's like well if we, if we can support ourselves and we feel really connected here, so much easier to support the others. Yeah.


Jen Rafferty:
But that's kind of in the air that we breathe. Us in a service industry like education. It's this giver syndrome, it's this martyrdom and that leads to like what you said, that self-neglect and we don't know what it means to honor our own well-being and we feel guilty for even thinking a thought about maybe honoring ourselves. And so, you know, what is your experience in working with educators, kind of navigating through some of that?

Katie Raher:
I might think oftentimes, well I'll say there's two sort of layers of when people come to work with me. I think there are a lot of people who are like, they're really curious about the work, and it sounds so juicy and good, but they're not yet ready to invest in themselves in this way. And so they don't sign up for things. And I understand because that's me 10 years ago, like there was this little hint inside this little voice, my intuition that was telling me, “Oh my gosh, I can't do this anymore. Like I need to reach out.” And I would do little things like I would go to one little class before I got really sick and I'm like, oh no, I felt so bad. My kids were sad when I got home that I had gone. Or oh then I didn't have time for the, it was like I just talked myself out of it again and again and again.

So there are sort of people there, but, to me that's progress. Like there's still that little voice there and they're like, they're getting towards that path, you know? Then there are the people who come to me who are like, okay, I'm ready. Like, I don't know what to do yet, but I'm ready. And they oftentimes are in that space that we were just talking about. They're confused as to what do I need? I don't know, help me. So sometimes it's like they're seeking my answers and they may hold a container for it, but ultimately the actual answers for them are within them. And it's always so unique to each person. So much of what we work on is, and they feel guilty if they also go and take care of themselves, both in terms of students, but also I find another big piece, and maybe it's just who I happen to attract as clients, but they often have families of their own.

So their moms, their aunties or whatever it is, grandmas and they're like, oh but I, I had to do this for my kids so I couldn't come again for myself. And again I remember it so well not setting that boundary. And so we try to, so much of the, what we're trying to do at first is just establish a sense of like, it's okay, you are worthy of it, and it's not gonna hurt those around you for you to take care of yourself. It's not selfish, it's actually quite good for them. And there's a lot of, well what will happen? You know, like, oh but what about them? And it's like, well how can we find a way for you to have this time for yourself or, and sometimes, you know, yes, on my program we do have sort of spacious moments of time.

We have hour calls or hour-and-a-half calls depending on the time of the month. But what about like, can you take five minutes? Like it's not gonna hurt your kid, your students, your whatever. If you take five minutes in my program then the number one thing people comment on that the program makes them feel is they develop that sense of worth that like, I am worthy of this time and not because I worked for it or had to earn it but because I'm human. I get to have this as well. But really it's a lot of that emotional stuff that really we have to work through at first and then people get to a place where they do feel like they're worth it but they like say for me for example, I very much feel it's, but then there's still be pockets where the old patterns will come up because I'm about to turn 43, like much of my life was spent neglecting myself.

So old patterns will come up if I have a lot of deadlines if I've got whatever it is. You know, it's, we all have busy times of the year, whatever our own kids, our students need a lot. And it's like, okay, I'll be fine. I'll just push through just for a couple of days, and then I'll get back to it. You know? And then we, it's so easy to fall back on those old patterns. And a big piece of too, you know, when people come is, I find that when people come to me a lot of times, they also feel broken, which is definitely how I felt. And also trying to help them realize yes, you've got a lot of stuff maybe going on. Yes, there are parts of you maybe that are getting really loud inside, and there's this confusion or resistance or whatever it is, but you're not broken.

You're whole, you are whole and you're just having a hard time, right? And so much of society views, like if a person doesn't have altogether or if they have these big emotional releases like that, that means you're broken. Absolutely not. It means you're so whole, and you're living the full human experience. And I think as people evolve over time, they feel more safe and comfortable diving into that. I dunno if that answers your question, but no, people come to me very much. So that's kind of the sweet of it. There's just they don't feel worthy of the time. And sometimes they also just don't have the tangible tools of like, okay, so this is, these are the words you can say to set a boundary. These are the words you can say to say hey, I need help so I can get to this thing that makes me feel better.

And I'll just say this one last thing, the beautiful thing about the age that my kids are right now, my kids are 12 and 9 when they were little cause they were pretty little when I started my own journey, they definitely were like, I don't want you to go, mommy. My heart would be like ugh, I shouldn't do this for myself. But at that point, I was feeling so terrible, like there was no, no other choice. But now, because of so many things, I've responded to them with, you know, I'll tell them, I would validate their feelings. I know you don't want mommy to go, I know you're sad, and I am able to be a better mommy. I'm able to do this better when I go take care of myself because then I'm calmer with you. I'm able to support you better. And now my kids are starting to reflect those things back to me with their words, which is so cool.

You know, they'll say like, oh I know, like yeah, mom, you should go to that because you're always so much just calmer, like more zen or whatever it is when you do those things. And you're always so much better, like, you know, talking through things with me when I'm having a hard time; they get it now. But it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when we have little people we're supporting or students who sometimes we don't get with our students, and we don't get to see that like play out. Or we're also sometimes getting messages from our systems that are like, what's wrong with you? Why did you take a day off? Or why did you da da da? So it's much harder when there's these other messages fighting us and that's really I think what people also are managing when they come to me.

Jen Rafferty:
Oh, for sure. And that's, I think, part of what's really important about the work that we do is in educating the educators; we start to change some of these systems because these systems don't change until people change. And I think a lot of men, many times people talk and then they, they point fingers like, well this, if my administrator is just blah blah blah, well guess what? Your administrator is very much a human, too, and is struggling through the same things that you are, but we're not talking about it in a way that's safe and productive, and healthy so that we can all grow together. Everyone's just kind of pointing fingers at each other, and everyone's grumpy about it.

So I think this is so important and especially this idea that we don't need to come to a point in our lives where we are so sick. Like what, as you described, yes. Or something catastrophic is happening to go seek help. And this is something that I also think is changing within our society a little bit, little by little. Like I can even see just generationally the way my mother used to talk about, like the self-help section at Barnes and Noble. Like, remember bookstores?

Katie Raher:
Totally. Totally.

Jen Rafferty:
But like that's what my shelves are full of what she would now she's changed her tune, especially with the work that I do and what my sister does now. It's all the same. But for me, it's like, well, when you wanna learn about something, and you wanna be better at it, you wanna get as much information as possible. And so for me, it's like, “Well, I am living this life, and I wanna be really good at it.”

Katie Raher:
Totally.

Jen Rafferty:
I wanna learn as much about myself as I possibly can. And when you talk about your acupuncturists and the other support that you have in your life right now, you have like team Katie and I have team Jen and my question to the listeners out there, it's like, well, who's on your team? Well, who are the people that are on your team? And what I wanna kind of transition to now is some of the other work that you do, particularly with breath work because I think now these team players are a lot more varied than maybe they used to be because all of this new science is coming out as to you know, what is actually helpful for your nervous system. It's not just about the food that you put into your body and the exercise you do or seeing a therapist. There are so many other places where you can get support and really build this awesome team so you can be your best self. So you can make the impact in this world that you said you wanted to make. Especially as an educator who you are affecting generations. And you know, I get so passionate about this work because when you do really well when you win, everybody around you wins. And this is how we make transformational change in the generations to come. So can you talk a little bit about this other stuff that you do outside of maybe the quote-unquote norms of school psychologists?

Katie Raher:
Yeah, and I just wanna pause. Couple things. One, I just wanna say thank you cuz I know so much of what you do is just lifting people up. That's what you do. All our interactions, like you're just about lifting educators themselves up but also about other people who help educators. And so I just love that because in a society that says we should compete like you're just all about making sure everybody's lifted up because that's how everyone gets their team. And there's plenty of need for teams out there. I just wanna say thank you for who you are.

Jen Rafferty:
I received that. Thank you. And I will say, too, you know when this is a side, I'm so glad that you said that because, on the surface, you and I do very similar work. Totally. And I am so excited to share my platforms with people like you, but especially you. Because I happen to enjoy you very much. Because you know, like you said, when you win, I win. And when I win, you win. Like that's, we're all in this together, and I really believe this and this idea of working together I think, is fundamental to understanding that we are all human and have all of these very same needs. So thank you, Katie.

Katie Raher:
Yeah, because I think that's a big piece of even what can get in the way of our well-being. There's this almost a competitive nature. That's why I stayed in my classroom. I wanted to have the best classroom, and I didn't need anyone that was my mentality. Or that's, you know, what can happen in like administrators can feel that pressure like our school's gotta get this performance. And so it's like taking away that performative level, and it just instead coming from this place of like really intentional human-centered healing, connection, growth, like all that together. You know? So in terms of the team thing, I just wanted to also mention I'm all about that too. I'll tell my people everybody needs to develop their own IWP, so like an IEP for kids. Instead, for us, we have an individualized well-being plan.

We all have to figure out what works uniquely for us. So some people, my husband, the idea of going to an acupuncturist, heck no, you know, and here whatever it is, breath work totally fills me up and fills up so many people who may or may not be your thing. And ultimately though kid who has an IEP, they have an IEP team. What that team does is, they make sure that that kid's supported in the best way possible. So we all need an IWP team, people who surround us, who support us with that. So sometimes it's even, hey, my intention today is to stop working at three o'clock. I need you to remind me and get me out here cause we can still sabotage. So telling our team and surrounding ourselves and putting that team on the calendar, like I'm meeting with this person today, it's important you know with we would never miss certain things for our own kids, for our students.

We make sure we go to library time, and we make sure we bring our kids to basketball or whatever. So we also are worthy of that and we surround ourselves with a team to help us with that. And so in terms of, you know, one possibility for your IWP and me being part of your team is breath work. And on my own journey, it was interesting, it's so fascinating to me that I'm actually someone who now advocates for breath work and teaches it because throughout my life I had terrible asthma and focusing on my breath even with mindfulness, as I developed that and used that too, for my own healing, I preferred all other forms of mindfulness focusing on sounds, body scans, whatever. But the breath would stress me out and I couldn't do it. But then eventually I just was like, you know, I know it's supposed to be really helpful.

So I integrated movement, I did all this work around the breath, and I ended up healing that but still hadn't come to what I'm, what I'm referring to as breath work and on my own healing journey still with because of still some resistance around the breath cuz of my own history. Breathwork was one of the last things I ended up trying in the modality. So I did pretty much most everything else you can think of on the like platter of possibilities. And then I kept hearing about breath work, and it just kept coming to me, and I was like, okay. And I do believe one of my mentors, Danny Kenny, talks about GUS- God's Universal Source. So whatever your higher power is, God. But I did believe, like, okay, God keeps sending me these messages that I need to go drive breath work.

So I did. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, what was that?” Oh whoa. I had done things like 4, 7, 8 breathing. I had done box breathing, I had done those other things which did help me. And I do think those are where we bring that conscious attention to the breath, and we are intentional with our breath. This kind of breath works, though, transformational breath work is when we have really; we have continual conscious breath.

So Connected Conscious Breath versus Sustained Amount of Time. And there are different versions. There's sort of a, what I refer to as integrative sessions where the continuous conscious breath is less than eight minutes, and then there's meditative where we go even longer. Cause most people, even when they're doing 4, 7, 8, whatever it is, nobody goes eight minutes typically. And even with those things, there are holes in between. And so the conscious, continual breath is this hugely powerful somatic practice that helps us get into our body in ways that nothing else I've ever done can do.

It allows us to turn our minds off and lets our body heal, in all these amazing ways. And anybody who knows sort of looks at trauma-informed practices or that kind of work knows that, you know, the body keeps the score. If you're aware of ACEs and those kind, that kind of work and around trauma, the body. And even if you don't have an ace score of anything, like if you have a zero still ultimately the body, like my body got really sick because I was taking all my stress and I wasn't moving through it. I was like, it was all just in my body. All the emotions that I was like, oh, I don't have time to feel that it, it's all in my body. So when I did this breath work, I was able to feel, I was able to move through it, I was able to unpack these stuck places in my body and it was like, whoa, what was that?

Especially with meditating, you get into the some subconscious work, but even with the shorter sessions, we're shifting so much energy, it just changes how we feel. So, um, and one of the biggest, you know, benefits is stress release, anxiety relief, those kinds of things. But it also helps us to unpack these places that have been kind of stuck and holding on for so long. And so it's like my body was just like, huh, whoa, whoa, you know, I feel so much better. And, and we do know that any type of really good breath practice also really toes the vagus nerve, which is, you know, I won't go into all that, but you know, ultimately, it's the vagus nerve is this powerhouse source of healing in our body. It's connected to all things and lots of different levels, mind, body, and spirit. And when we can heal and sort of unstick places that we've been holding, we really expand our window of tolerance.

So even when a kid is dysregulated in my capacity to just even handle that, it just expands, it grows. So we're able to show up with those we love in these just more centered, grounded, healed ways. And that transfers too. So breath work, it doesn't have to be long, it can be a minute, but it shifts our energy. So most people think of breath, and they're like, oh yeah, it can calm you down. Absolutely. But it also can energize you. It also can create clarity. It can do all these other things. Like for example, even for work, when I'm feeling really stuck about a work topic, even just like I'm planning a workshop or whatever, I'll breathe, and it's like then afterward like I have this clarity, and then I'm like I can just slow it out, and it's like I save time. So even though, yeah, I breathe for 20 minutes. Wow. Now I busted that out cuz it was in alignment with my soul, and it wasn't like I was trying to push and force and figure out, like, what is everyone else? You know, I just came from that place of centeredness, that place of intuition. It could come through. So that's, in a nutshell, power of breath work.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, that is huge. And I know the people who work with me and anyone who's like dabbled a little bit in breath work, understand the box breath and the 4-7-8. Is there something that's kind of a bite-size piece of an exercise that you can give to our listeners that they can do today?

Katie Raher:
Yeah. So I use a handful of patterns, but my favorite, which I think is the simplest, it's just the halo active breath, and it's just in through the nose, out through the mouth. Remembering that it's continuous and conscious the whole time. So you can adjust it however you feel. And ultimately, my model of breath work, a trauma porn model, is that you are in the driver's seat, and you get to decide what feels right. Like, maybe you don't wanna just have them be even in and even out. Maybe you're like, I need the exhale to lengthen, which is really just deep breathing, you know like that extended to get that parasympathetic nervous system back online, that peaceful state. And to shift energy, though, we can do this in out, and you can change the speed, you can change the depth.

So even if, just for a minute, we'll just breathe for just a minute given this, and I don't know what you're copyright and all that kind of stuff. So I won't put down music, but I do generally use music in my practice. So even when I do it myself, like I'm no one's around, I'll put a song on, and I'll breathe to that. There is something really beautiful that I've found when I breathe with or without music. The music does just elevate our capacity to drop into the body a little quicker. But we'll just-

Jen Rafferty:
Oh, right now? Oh yeah. Cool.

Katie Raher:
Let's breathe for a minute. Just one minute. This isn't gonna be that different than box breathing or 4-7-8. We're doing it for a minute, and I like to do it for longer, but just so you know, and you could get little tingles in your body, but we'll just breathe for a minute. That's cool. You can do it.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. Cool.

Katie Raher:
Okay. So again, enter the nose out through the mouth. We're just gonna do even in and out. I'm gonna put my mic a little closer so you can hear me. We'll breathe altogether. I'll do it too. Well, I'll get the benefits. Yeah.

Jen Rafferty:
And if you're driving, please make sure that you're being safe and your eyes are open.

Katie Raher:
If you're driving, I would just, instead of doing it with me, I would just do just sort of traditional deep breathing. Go really slow. Make that exhale really long. You'll probably get three deep breaths in when we do a little bit more this time. Yeah, for safety.

All right, so here we go. You can do eyes open or closed, totally up to you. I'm gonna do eyes open so I can see the timer. All right. So just go ahead, start to bring that breath in through the mouth, in through the nose, out through the mouth, in through the nose, out through the mouth. Letting any part of the body move that needs to be moved or stay in stillness if that's what feels in alignment.

Just a little bit more with the breath. On this next one, I'm gonna ask you to sigh it out, open your mouth, and make a noise. Just allowing the breath to return to its natural pace. Perhaps taking some really slow breaths. Just coming back to the space. Whenever you're ready. I'm sure Jen will join us first since she's leading the podcast here.

Jen Rafferty:
That was great.

Katie Raher:
Yeah, just noticed the energy shift

Jen Rafferty:
Totally shift, and that was energizing for me in a way that I wasn't really anticipating.

Katie Raher:
Yeah. And that one was the way I did at the speed. I definitely did a little bit of energy. And so when a kid's just regulated, you know, that's probably not the breath we wanna do. We wanna do that at a separate time. When our kid is just regulated, we want to really slow it down. We want them to feel that length and exhale- that calming. But we can do the halo active at a slower pace.

Katie Raher:
It is just a deep breath. Yeah. But there's a little bit more intentionality, and there's more continuous connectedness to it, and there are so many other things we can do with this breath. So it's like, to me, it's this cool thing because it's free, it's readily available. So it is actually Monday morning while we're recording this, it's Monday morning, and you're like, oh my gosh, I gotta get my students. Or, oh my gosh, I gotta go like whatever it is, put on a song, breathe for a minute.

And it's like the energizing power of that because when we bring that to our interactions, there's just something. And there's also no shame if you bring tired and overwhelmed sometimes that's our humanity, and that's okay too. No shame or blame for that. But if you want to feel a little bit more energized or whatever it is, or if we had continued for a lot longer.

Usually, what happens is there's like just parts that start to unpack, and we feel like some tension release people told me like, oh, after breath work, my back popped. And for the first time in like a month, I feel no pain in my back. We're releasing things, and we're just, we're giving permission to our body to feel what's been there.

So that, that we wanna do maybe more in a container or on your own, whatever feels right for you, whatever is like your safety level. And there's just this power of using the breath to shift our energy. And cuz sometimes it's, it's not that we need a slow breath, sometimes we need a faster, more energizing breath to unpack things. Cuz sometimes, we are just like holding in, and maybe because we've been conditioned, especially say, as women, we're not supposed to scream, we're not supposed to be angry, right? We're supposed to be sweet, and you know, it's okay to be sad, but all these other things maybe we, we've been told not to.

Sometimes we need to move this energy and let it like come to the surface and whew. So sometimes in breath work, people yell, and people let it rip in other ways, you know, and that's what we need. We need to move through our feelings rather than just shove them in there all the time.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. That release is everything. And so healing. Thank you so much for taking us through all of that. Super powerful And if you're listening and interested in more breath work, we'll make sure that Katie tells us about her information, uh, before we leave. But before we do that, I just need to ask the same question I ask all of my guests, Katie. Yeah. And that is what for you is your dream for the future of education.

Katie Raher:
Yeah, really, my vision is that education systems. There are systems, there are places where people, adults, and children feel more connected. There's more compassion; there's more centering on humanity. That's really what is my dream; to me, the education system is this beautiful opportunity to transform society. As you said earlier, individuals are who change systems, and altogether, collectively, we can make an impact on society. You know, so instead of the conditioning that I know, I'm sure you did too as a kid, and I know our kids also current generation of children get is this messaging of push through. You have to be perfect. You've gotta, people please, you've gotta perform. What would it be like if yes we get to be our best selves, but what if we shifted that a little bit? That it also honored our humanity and our strengths and we tap into that.

Because I just think in general society would be happier, we would be just generally more connected and, and so that's just really my vision. So, you know. Yes. Do I, my husband's a high school math teacher. Yes. Do I love the idea of kids being able to be like critical thinkers because of his class? Absolutely. I do love those academic kinds of things too. Do I want every kid to be able to be literate? Yes, absolutely. And how we do that is through relationships. And there's such beautiful work being done in schools where relationships are becoming more centered. Humanity is being centered, but it's just that what if the messages that came through were always just more compassionate and more centered in that way.

So that's, that's really my, my dream. We've talked a little bit before, I think in the past about our own inner children. So that, my little girl feels safe to not have to kill herself to get straight A's that she feels like I'm still gonna be loved even if I go down this road because it feels more in alignment, you know? Or I'm having a bad day, and if I take a break, it's okay, you know? And that my own children and my own students feel that as well. It's a culture shift. It's hard. I know that's a culture shift because I'm still doing the work. Yes. And that's really my dream. Yeah. Yes.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. But that's just it, you know, you do the work, I do the work, everyone listening does the work, and we do it individually within the community, and that is really how we start to shift all of it. So thank you for sharing that. It's a beautiful dream, and the more we can shout it from the rooftops, the more we are able to maybe, uh, visualize it. If not, you know, in our lifetime, at least we're planting seeds for the next generation to carry that torch. So Katie, how do people get in touch with you if they wanna learn more about you and the work that you do?

Katie Raher:
Yeah, so my website is constantloveandlearning.com. You can hop over there and get one of my freebies. If you wanna stay connected, there's a free self-compassion break poster and mini cards that you can spread about. There's a free educator self-care menu, and some other freebies related to more kid SEL kinds of things. And also, I'll share the link with you if you wanna put it in the show notes. I'll share, a link to a breath work if you wanna get information on breath work. There'll be lots of offerings coming up in the new year.

And also opportunities if you would like to be in my educator wellbeing membership with sort of live support with community and circles. And so you can head out there if you wanna email me, you're always welcome to email me, katie@constantloveandlearning.com. I'm on Facebook under Constant Love and Learning. On Instagram, @constantloveandlearning_. And yeah, would love to stay connected both for yourself and any schools out there that want to bring me in to actually give some support to their educators in real-time with breath, work, with circles, with whatever feels in alignment and really shift some, shift the culture.

Jen Rafferty:
Amazing. Thank you. And yeah, all of those will be in the show notes for sure. So it'll be super easy for everyone to get in touch and learn more about you and all the beautiful work you do in this world. So Katie, thank you for spending your morning with me. Thank you. It's always such a pleasure to talk with you.

Katie Raher:
Always a pleasure. Definitely my pleasure. Thank you, Jen.

Jen Rafferty:
So, if you enjoyed today's episode, please make sure you leave a nice review and subscribe and you know what? Better yet, share it with a friend, and we will see you next time on Take Notes.

Incredible right? Together we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible, and it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

Struggling with adult ADHD? Feeling overlooked by doctors and mental health professionals?

There's a place for you here.

In this episode, I got to delve into an enlightening conversation with Shane Thrapp, a certified ADHD life coach and advocate.

His personal journey with ADHD has empowered him to help others like him find their unique purpose and steer through the ordinary bustle of daily life.

Shane shares his frustration with the lack of information and support for adults with ADHD and how he became an advocate for the condition. We discuss the importance of self-advocacy in seeking a diagnosis and treatment and how individuals with ADHD can navigate professional environments by identifying their strengths and needs and communicating them to HR.

A focal point of our discourse was the imperative of spreading education among parents, teachers, and students about neurodivergent conditions such as ADHD and autism.

This consciousness can be a cornerstone in crafting a society that welcomes differences and fosters understanding and acceptance.

So, are you ready to take the reins of your ADHD and become your own advocate?

Tune into this conversation with Shane Thrapp, and gain a fresh perspective on adult ADHD, self-advocacy, and education.

Stay empowered,

Jen


Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Shane:
Shane Thrapp is a Certified ADHD Life, Relationship, and Career Coach.
Through his business, Creating Order From Chaos, he has helped hundreds of people find their paths through the chaos of life with ADHD and find their order and purpose.
He is a board member of the nationwide non-profit Inattentive ADHD Coalition, runs the largest Men’s ADHD Support Groups on Facebook, and is a public speaker who works to be a voice in advocacy for adult ADHD awareness.

Connect with Shane:
Website: creatingorderfromchaos.com
Facebook: Creating Order From Chaos Consulting
IG: @creatingorderfromchaosconsult
Men’s ADHD Support Group

TRANSCRIPT: Introduction:
 Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed, and overwhelmed and frustrated.

But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you.

In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm, and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook.

It's time to take notes


Jen Rafferty:
Hello, everyone and welcome back to another episode of Take Notes. Today's guest is someone who I'm really excited to talk with because actually, I've gotten a lot of feedback and questions about this very topic. So I'm excited to bring this conversation to you.

Today I have with me Shane Thrapp, who is a certified ADHD life, relationship, and career coach. Through his business, Creating Order From Chaos, he has helped hundreds of people find their paths through the chaos of life with ADHD and find their order and purpose. He is a board member of the nationwide nonprofit, inattentive ADHD coalition runs the largest men's ADHD support groups on Facebook, and is a public speaker who works to be a voice in advocacy for adult ADHD awareness. Thank you so much, Shane, for being here with me today.

Shane Thrapp:
Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Jen Rafferty:
This is such an important topic and I think especially now, it seems there's an uptick, all of a sudden in this awareness of being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. And so I think that's where a lot of these questions are coming from, from the people that I work with. And I would just love to know, how did you even just come into this work and be here? What is seemingly a really timely place right now?

Shane Thrapp:
Well, I'm one of those adults who found out late in life that they had ADHD. When I was 31, my son was diagnosed with ADHD through his school system. And I, of course, wanted to learn about it. And as I was learning about it, I was seeing a lot of similarities within my own life. We kind of look back and like, Oh, no, wow, that happened. And so as I going through it, I was currently dating my wife at the time, and she's a special needs teacher and I go to her, I'm like, “I think I have ADHD.” And she was like, “Oh, honey, you didn't know?” And I was like, “No, I didn't know.” She was like, “Oh, I knew.” And I was like, “How long have you known?” And she's like “Since I read your dating profile.” So that's what started everything for me.

I started studying ADHD and it was like, the more I started studying it, the more I started going. There are a lot of issues here because our mental health professionals and our doctors and our education system, and our society aren't really designed for people with ADHD or autism or who are neurodivergent. And it always seemed really unfair in my eyes. And then it took me going to three different psychiatrists to finally get a psychiatrist who would even believe me that I had ADHD. The first psychiatrist said that I had depression. Second, a psychiatrist said I had bipolar disorder. And the third one was like I went in there, I literally said, I think I have ADHD, I would like to get tested for it. She wanted to know a few of the symptoms and everything like that. But then as I went through the symptoms, she got out she said, “Okay, we're gonna go through this.”

And it was really frustrating because it took three years to get through that because they want to try you on medications before they even go any further in there. And this kind of continued on and how prevalent is this happening?

And as I'm kind of going through and learning how prevalent it is how often people with ADHD are being misdiagnosed with something else as adults, how often women are being misdiagnosed with ADHD because they present with inattentive ADHD a lot of the time, how often other kids and adults are being misdiagnosed because they have inattentive ADHD, which I have as well. It really became so obvious to me that there was just a huge gap in the information. Because when we look at the papers, right, the scientific papers, there's this huge disparity because there's so much work that's being done studying ADHD. It's one of the most studied mental health issues that are out there, you know, over the past 20 years, and yet that information is not trickling down to doctors and teachers and parents, right? It was very frustrating And I didn't want my kids to grow up without learning about that support. So I just kept learning more and more about it.

Eventually, in 2018, I actually wound up having to retire from the project management jobs that I had been doing. Because my body just kind of shut down on me. I had a massive mental health breakdown in 2016, they ignored it and kept trying to work through it didn't work. And in 2018, my body was done.

And 2019 as ever, my wife and I were about to have twin toddlers. And my wife was like, well, you can be a stay-at-home dad, we can live off my paycheck, and then we'll go forward. And so I became a stay-at-home dad. But it didn't feel right, just being at home. And I started doing the search to try to figure out, what could I do. And then I want to talk to a friend of mine. She's a business coach. And as I was talking to her, she was like, “Why don't you do life coaching? You have this background in project management, do you have this background in ADHD, and you have access to all of these resources, go for it.”

And that was the journey. I wound up getting my certification in ADHD life coaching through a school system program that my wife has gotten me into. And I got my official life coaching certification as well, to kind of just have that background and make sure I was giving people good advice, not breaking that boundary between therapy and coaching, which needs to be respected. Then I started helping people, and really getting out there and kind of just developing my programs and understanding how to educate people. And so I started helping adults with ADHD. And I started helping parents with kids who had ADHD and then because they would come to me and I have ADHD, what about your kids do they?

And they were like, Yes. And I was like, let's talk about how all of that works then. And that was where everything kind of started coming together.

Then I joined a men's ADHD support group and started helping the leader of that group really tried to develop their system and start expanding that group. And now we have 12,000 members that have joined the board of the inattentive ADHD coalition. And the rest is history. Now it's just everywhere. And I'm working on building up a public speaking program and going from there.

Jen Rafferty:
And here you are, yeah, that's quite a journey. And one of the things I want to circle back to, and thank you, again, for sharing all of that, because we need to hear stories like this. So it normalizes the human experience, right? I mean, oftentimes, we tend to shy away from sharing these vulnerable parts of ourselves, but we ignore a big part of our humanity. So I really appreciate you sharing that.

And one of the things that you talked about, which is so frustrating to hear, and to experience ourselves is going to a doctor and not being believed, trying to advocate for yourself, and not having the experience of really feeling heard and seen. And so a lot of what you do, too, from the times that we've talked prior to this is advocacy and how do you advocate for yourself in those moments where you really need to speak your truth? What kind of things can you say about that? Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Shane Thrapp:
I want to preface this by saying doctors and psychiatrists are doing their best, right? When we look at our average doctor who goes through medical school and things of that nature, if they’re general practitioners or something along those lines, they're not exposed to a lot of information about ADHD and autism, things of that nature. They're essentially given the information on how to give the initial evaluation and then the referral to the other people.

And when we talk about the people who do know about ADHD, pediatricians, psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, neurobiologists, people who deal with the brain and things of that nature when we talk about those people, they're getting pretty in-depth thing, information, but there's a gatekeeping, that kind of keeps you from going from your own personal life to them, you have to get referrals, a lot of time you have to have health insurance, you have to have the ability to pay for the testing and things of that nature. So I do want to preface that.

That being said, though, when you go to talk to a doctor, and especially like a general practitioner, and you sit here and you go in there and say, Man, Doc, I don't have any motivation to do anything, I can't get myself to do anything. Like I just don't want to everything seems boring. Well, when you say things like that, you're talking about what sounds like depression. When you go into the doctor's office, and you're like, man, every now and then I'm just like, I'm up there. I'm manic as hell. I'm going through all these different things. And I can't stop overthinking. There are all these voices going through my head as fast as possible. When they hear that there's, they sit here and they kind of start looking at bipolar disorder or other things like that.

So when you suspect that you have ADHD, and you really want to make sure that you're being advocated for, advocating for yourself, you need to go in there and say, I feel like I have ADHD. This is why and kind of start talking about the different symptoms that you have and say, I at least want to rule out ADHD. If it's not that then we can sit here and talk about what it may be. Right? That's a good way to advocate for yourself at the same time as understanding that you may not have ADHD. Because we see a lot of different mental health issues that mimic a lot of things with ADHD. We also see a lot of physical health issues that mimic a lot of things with ADHD, lead poisoning, thyroid disorders, and things of that nature. When the doctors are going to test you, they're going to take bloodwork urine work and see if there's any of those environmental issues to kind of rule them out. But then they're going to give you the actual testing. And then that's really important that you're honest, and you answer all the questions and really develop what that looks like.

Because you may not just have ADHD, as I said earlier, it may also be that you have ADHD and autism, or ADHD and depression, or ADHD and PTSD, or any other type of comorbidity, learning disorders, or things of that nature. And the doctors need to know this. Because how we treat things like that, how doctors are going to need to treat that is going to determine what kind of medications they give you, what kind of therapy they're going to get you into, what kind of lifestyle changes you need to make in your life.

When you have ADHD and autism like I do, meds aren't really the solution for me, I have to make lifestyle changes to kind of bring everything into alignment. Because while my autism wants everything to be in its own place, nobody has to touch me, please don't invade my personal space, don't move anything that is mine, I want to do everything at the same time, every single day, every you know, I need that. My ADHD side is like, “I am chaos, I must rule.”

And so you know, you had to figure those out. And that requires therapy. And so that's really important, whenever you're talking about that to make sure that you're getting everything that you may deal with properly diagnosed so that then you can take that information, learn about it, and then communicate that to the people around you. So that you're getting positive support and encouragement and feedback from them, and teaching them how to help you and be a part of that really strong support system that is absolutely necessary for you to have a thriving life.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, and lots of places that I could go with this too. But I think the thing that sticks out to me the most is as an adult who, and I'm thinking specifically the teachers who I know who are neurodivergent themselves, we get some training as to how to create spaces where all kids can succeed, where we can give the supports to the kids who need those extra places and services so they can thrive and do well in this academic environment. However, when it comes to the adults in schools, you have to advocate for yourself to create the environments which are best suited for you to thrive. So how do you do that and navigate those spaces where you're in a working environment where there's a lot of assumptions going on, right?

You know, when you go into a professional space, I don't think the initial assumption is that everyone in this room is neurodiverse. And I would love to be in a world where that's the case, because we could all see each other as individuals with our own needs and our own beautiful journeys in this world. But unfortunately, that's often not how these spaces are set up. So as someone who actively needs to create a space that is purposefully designed for their success, how do you go about doing that in that professional arena?

Shane Thrapp:
Well, in mine, I just said “Screw it, I'm gonna work for myself.” I'm actually a different case, I became functionally disabled in 2018, and I was not able to work in a corporate space or anything along those lines, just because of a host of different health issues I have that meant working from home, creating my own space in my office, giving myself the ability to take breaks at certain times. And so that's one thing to think about if you do not fit into societal standards for work, there are things that you can do within your own space at home if you have the resources and the ability and you are able to do it to work for yourself. People with ADHD are 300% more likely to become entrepreneurs for that very reason. However, working in the corporate world or working at jobs where you're having to kind of go into work and be in that environment.

A lot of what we need to do is actually start being more open about having ADHD and what that means for you. I teach a lot of people just to how to communicate how their ADHD affects them, like so that means learning with them how their ADHD affects them or what kind of things they have to deal with. What kind of sensitivities do they have? What kind of different tics do they have? What kind of different needs that they have as far as being able to function in certain environments? And then once they understand how they can do things to be successful, you know what the best way that they work. What time of day? Do they best work? What kind of work? What do they best do? What kind of communication style are they best at? What kind of learning style are they best with?

Once they understand these things, they can take their accommodation needs to HR, and you talk to HR, and you say, these are the things that will allow me to be successful, I can thrive when I have this kind of environment, and you list out the things that you need, I need blue lights for my monitors so that I don't get the migraines that a lot of us get from computers. I can't be underneath fluorescent lighting, because of sensitivity. I have to have a quiet space where I can't be overwhelmed, I don't really function well, in a cubicle farm. I need an active place where I can reach out and talk to my various co-workers so that I can have the kinesthetic style of communication and team building and work within an atmosphere of people who are allowing me to use my great creativity to really expand on the business that we're doing.

We don't want to take accommodations in there and say, I can't do these things, right, we want to take accommodations in there, where we talk about how we can thrive, how we can provide value to the company. We also do need to make sure that they understand things that will trigger us, blue lights, fluorescent lighting, aggressive managers, people who have a tendency to dismiss mental health issues, and types of people who do not take into consideration the diversity of the minds that are around them and how they function. Explain to them that I can't be around a lot of people who are very negative and things like that, because I absorbed that negativity. And this isn't some woos, you know, nonscientific stuff, we are naturally prone to absorbing the inner feelings and emotional content of those that are around us.

Because everything about us is externally built. We don't have inherent self-awareness. Metacognition is a big problem with ADHD. And so we have to have a lot of tools that allow us to control what we're allowing around ourselves. And that is accommodations that's speaking up for ourselves talking about ADHD, talking about our traumas, if we're comfortable doing that, at least with HR, and at least hopefully, with managers, and letting them know so that we have the support and things like that. And then with the co-workers just talking about ADHD in general, not making light of it, but being serious about and talking about it. Just generally like having those kinds of conversations if people need to know it.

Jen Rafferty
Yeah. And then classroom situation, you know, if you are a teacher who is neurodivergent yourself, what a gift you get to bring to your students sharing some of your stories with them as a fully functional person in this world able to do a job that they're excited about. And having those moments of not sharing, but true connection is an example of what's possible and paving the way for these kids.

Shane Thrapp:
Yeah, absolutely. Because one of the things I love is one of the people I work with in my Men's ADHD support group, his name is Jonathan, he is the most amazing person I've ever met. He has this laugh that is out of this world. And you just feel pure joy from just being around him. And he has ADHD. And he has, you know, we have these rings. I know the people at home can't see this. But they're fidget rings, they spin around your fingers and things of that nature. They make clicky, clacky noises and they're magnetic so that they keep our ability to function and are able to focus on people easier, because that's kind of taking away from the different fidgets and tics that we have that are kind of distracting for the people around us. However, a number of the students notice that he keeps spinning this gold ring that's around his finger.

And they asked him about it. And he goes, and he told him he goes, “This is my ADHD spinner. This allows me to fidget without really distracting y'all.” And a bunch of the students started asking him questions. And as they were asking him questions, he started noticing a number of students who weren't asking questions but were looking a little ashamed, a little fearful. And so he made it a fun conversation. And he started talking about how people needed to learn how to accept people with neurodivergence and how to talk about it and how he talked about it. And he started talking to him about the joys that he had in being able to be more creative than the average Joe and he started talking about the different people the different successful people out there in the world who were known to be neurodivergent. Einstein, you know, Richard Branson, we started talking about all these different people, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, we start talking about these massively powerful people who excelled, and then like, how did they excel and learning how to accept who they were, and enjoy being who they were?

Because we're built this way, we're not broken or anything we're built this way, this is how our brains function. And we don't live in a society that gets that. And so we have to figure out how to both accept who we are, love who we are and then figure out the tools that we need to be able to function within the society that we live in, while at the same time raising awareness for the needs that we need for people to accept who we are. And be very strong in that and be very intentional in that we have to live very intentionally. And that's what a lot of people don't understand about ADHD.

Jen Rafferty:
Wow. And that reframe is so important to take something where all the stories that we generally get of neurodivergent folks are stories of struggle, and overcoming this adversity, where if you flip the script, and really showcase that this is your superpower in a way that is different, and beautiful, and a reason to be celebrated, because of the really cool things that you get to experience in this world, all of a sudden, the conversation changes in a way that is really empowering, especially to kids.

Shane Thrapp:
Yeah, but we still need to understand the limitations, right? I always love helping people seeing the need for accepting who they are. But it's also important to understand the “why” that they have, the limitations that they have. The realistic ideals that we need to make sure that we're paying attention to, to be able to make sure that we aren't living up to unrealistic expectations, especially by society, which is that's prevalent around us. It's a very big thing that we have to deal with. And really embrace the creativity and the different powers that we have to be able to do things but at the same time, not letting people belittle us for the things that we can't do.

A lot of us have learning disabilities, I can't do math to save my life, anything above basic math, and everything like that. It's like speaking different languages to me, I have to acknowledge that and be okay with that, then not really care anymore about that I don't need much more than that. Some people aren't able to read. And so they have to understand such as dyslexia and things like that, it's very difficult. So we have to find tools that we use, right? It's things that read out loud to us and think things along those lines. So it's just kind of both understanding that we do have superpowers that we can really take advantage of, but also understanding the realistic things that we have to find the tools to be able to work around. And it's a balancing act there whenever I talk to people about and sometimes it's frustrating because we don't learn the stuff, right? Our school system isn't designed around teaching these things naturally. And that's really unfortunate.

Jen Rafferty:
Well, to me, I feel like what a cool opportunity, then because school can be such an important place during our formative years, develop ourselves in our identities, and create the foundation for who we become. We have an opportunity in educational spaces to create and design a program, a culture, and systemic operations that support all students. So they all thrive in these spaces. You know, I've spoken to so many incredible people over the years. And there's one conversation that keeps coming up over and over again, get kids into spaces where they can thrive, and support them in using their strengths.

So they can bind who they are and what they're good at, instead of sitting in the back of class thinking to themselves, I'm no good because I can't do this math problem. And I should be able to, and everyone else around me can do it. Why can I do this? I must be really stupid. I'm no good. And that's the story that follows you for, you know, until you get to therapy, and you start to unpack those things.

But what an opportunity that we have and big scale, obviously, that would be great. But even on the small scale, you and your classroom have so much ability to make changes that support the needs of all of your students.

Shane Thrapp:
Yeah, absolutely. Whenever we're looking into classrooms and things like that, and you're looking at the students who are struggling, and especially if they do have already have an IEP or a 504 program that you're a part of, remember, the big part of this also needs to be educating the parents, right? A lot of parents who are involved in the IEP programs or 504 programs, for those in the thing that educators know, but those are the special needs programs in this special accommodations programs for children with disabilities. When you are a part of that sometimes you’re learning, sometimes you don't have the time to be able to be as involved as you need to be.

We really need to be giving the parents as much support and education on what the children are going through. Also recognize that there are a lot of times when their parents actually may also be dealing with similar issues because we know ADHD and autism, are genetic components here, where a lot of times parents also deal with this and they may not be diagnosed they may not be aware of it. So we also need to be gently communicating about how ADHD, autism, and other neuro divergences are hereditary, and then getting the parents to start recognizing that maybe they need to also get support and help and learn about the different things that they're going through and why they're having such frustrations.

And as they are learning about their own issues, that is also teaching them how to give their children support, and why these behaviors aren't children just being disobedient, but dealing with executive dysfunction, or emotional dysregulation, or these other issues that people face like behaviors are communication, they're not meant to be a child just acting out for the shits and giggles of it. It is them trying to communicate and not having the tools and the ability to do so. And so as teachers are going through this, educating the parents is just as important as anything else. But also educate your students on what that means, right?

How many students sit here and see a child who has a 504 plan or an IEP, and they immediately start telling them how stupid they are, or how dumb they are, or how other words that I don't use anymore, because it's so unfair. They need to be educating their students on what it means to be neurodivergent. Because as the children start to understand it, and they start to become aware of it, they're also going to start noticing things that they deal with. And they will be able to sit here and be more open about how their dyslexia affects them, there are other different emotional dysregulation or other mental health issues that they deal with, right? We need to be educated at a very young age about what mental health means and how it affects people and how a lot of times it is okay to feel these ways and to live this way. And that it's okay to be different.

Because as my therapist who wound up having to yell at me over and over again, there is no normal when it comes to the human brain, there's no normal, there is a stereotype of a status quo that neurotypical people are able to fit in better. But that being said, everybody's brains are different. And we need to be able to start educating people. And then as we are educating the children, the parents, and the other children in the school system, they'll grow up and as they grow up, they'll start building a society that starts to understand the need for neurodivergent being respected and not vilified or ignored.

Jen Rafferty:
Absolutely. And in the work that I do with Empowered Educator, all of that starts with the introspective work yourself that, yes, we need to be able to educate the people around us. But that actually can't happen effectively if we're not doing the internal work ourselves. So as someone who is thinking, you know, sitting in their car or listening to this podcast right now, I'm like, Hmm, this is interesting. So, okay, where do I start? What's a good starting place to even start exploring some of these ideas?

Shane Thrapp:
The first thing is to find out if you have ADHD, or if you're hearing this and you're like, “Man, I feel like XYZ person may have to deal with this, or my husband deals with this. And this sounds a lot like my wife, you know?” When you're hearing that the best place to start is learning about it, learning about how ADHD affects people, and then looking at their lives, and then having discussions about it. Like what it means now, if you yourself, feel like you may have ADHD, or autism, or something along those lines, again, you really need to learn about what it means. And here's the hard part, you have to start asking yourself questions that you really don't ask a lot of times because again, ADHD and autism affect our prefrontal cortex, which affects our who, what, when, where, why, and how of ourselves. And you need to really kind of start asking those questions. Who am I? What do I like to do? What does this mean? How do I do these things? Right?

Once you start really asking yourself the like, the who, what, the why, where when, when you start asking yourself those questions and really starting to drill down into those, you'll actually start learning the how, and that's the hard part. A lot of times, you're gonna need help, hopefully, friends and family can help you. Maybe you need a coach, an ADHD life coach, an executive coach, or something along those lines to kind of help you break into those thought processes.

A lot of cognitive behavioral therapists and other types of therapists kind of help you with that self-reflection and kind of understanding of who you are, you know? But if you have ADHD and autism, you're almost going to always need an external source of help and support to go through these because it's very hard for us to answer those questions about ourselves. Especially as adults, we've absorbed too much of what other people feel we are or say we are or tell us who we are and things of that nature. And we don't have a good reference because imposter syndrome and rejection sensitivity are just too ingrained. ain't done a lot of us. So if you're struggling with that kind of thing, talk to your friends and family, find a life coach, and see if they can kind of help guide you through those things.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And I would love to venture to say that everyone will benefit from any of those people. Because I, you know, I've said this before, you can't read the label from inside the wine bottle. You need to have someone on the other side reflecting things back at you because we can't be completely objective in what we think. That's just how our brain works, you know, and we can work towards that. That's always the goal to be an objective observer of ourselves. But by nature, it's not possible. So all of the time, right? So that is important. And what a great way to start just exploring some of these things is just learning. That's usually the answer, right? Just learn some more.

Shane Thrapp:
A lot of people get frustrated, because they're like, “Well, where do I start?” I'm like, “Hey, look, you have to start by at least starting, right?” Take small steps, and read a blog, right? ADDitudemag.com, how to ADHD on YouTube, creatingorderfromchaos.com, where you can find me, there are a lot of support groups on Facebook, and different places like that, where you can go into and have discussions with people to figure out more about how other people have gone through this and get inspiration from them. But the key is starting really small, right? Start super small. And then just like, I'll read one article, at least once per week, all right, then you start kind of moving into reading that article, which then turns into a rabbit hole of all the different things that you're learning as you're going, and those links a link to other links about ADHD.

And then you'll kind of start falling down into that rabbit hole, as I said, and then kind of keep going into it. And you'll start seeing the things that have affected your life. And you'll start seeing the personality types that are there. And you'll start answering some of the questions that you have in your head about who you are and what you deal with. And then you'll see how to account for impostor syndrome, how to account for rejection sensitivity, how to account for, we, literally as people with ADHD, view the world in a different way.

We perceive the world in very interesting filters and different concepts that we think are perfectly normal. However, the people around us are like, “How did you get to that point?” And as you're kind of going through that, because, like, again, self-awareness, that's not our thing. And I don't know if I have time for this, can I tell a quick story?

Jen Rafferty:
Absolutely.

Shane Thrapp:
Okay. So one of my people on Facebook asked the question, and he's like, “Why are we so easily able to figure out the common sense fixes for problems?” And I sat here and I posted back and I said, the rest of the world doesn't understand the things that we do. So while you think what you're looking at as a common sense fix to a problem, the person you're dealing with, never saw it the same way that you did. And that is how our brains work.

That's why when you allow people with ADHD and autism to be in their spaces, thriving, and growing and being accepted and being encouraged and being loved and being cherished, when you see people in those environments, being able to find the niche that they fit into, you start to see the super geniuses start exploding out of the world, and being huge agents of change and creativity and artistry and explosiveness and things like that.

Look at Simone Biles, a perfect example, she has ADHD and a couple of different learning disabilities. However, she was always encouraged to follow what she loved doing, which was gymnastics. And as she was able to sit here and use that to be able to grow, she was able to find her way into being literally one of the most decorated gymnasts in the world. You know, when we start to embrace those things now, are all of us going to be that kind of person?

No, we're not meant to be those kinds of people. Sometimes we're meant to just enjoy life and live through it, and find out the ways to be happy in the ways that we can. And that's okay, right? It's okay to be happy with who you are. And just to live life, having fun doing the things that you love, that's fine. There's no other purpose that you need to find. Now, if you do great, pursue it, love it, and enjoy it for as long as it lasts. And that's how it is when we have ADHD and autism.

And for the people out there who were like, “Well, you know, I don't have the time to help these children because I have to teach all these other kids.” Every tool that you put in place for a neurodivergent child will also help a neurotypical child. Every single tool that you do and use and have will allow another child to be able to expand and learn and understand in their own way. And it may help more than you think. Right?

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. 100%. So with that vein, I'd love to ask you the question I asked all my guests So what is your dream for the future of education?

Shane Thrapp:
I think I touched on it earlier, like, the more that we educate our children and parents about what neurodivergence is, what ADHD is, what autism is, the more that we educate these people about it, the more than our younger generations are gonna grow up and be more accepting of it, and understanding of it and recognizing it and having conversations about it and expanding not just their own personal awareness of it, but also expanding our governmental awareness, in our medical awareness and our scientific awareness, and really start to expand into super, really significant change in how we live in our world and a whole and a sound super idealistic. And I get that everyone, I totally get that.

But it's how we've gotten to the point where we are now, right when we started talking about LGBT things back in the early 90s, and 2000s. We were like, “Oh, you know, it was just this whole weird thing, right?” It doesn't matter that it's lasted throughout history, right? But as we started talking about it, becoming more aware of him becoming more understanding of it being becoming more accepting of it, we start seeing our kids growing up and starting to be more accepting of it and understanding things like that.

Are there outliers? Yes, that's fine. I totally understand that there are outliers. Are there people who are still bigots? Yes, there are totally people out there and still bigots. But we have to start by educating people and getting people to understand that differences are okay, that neuro divergence is okay, that being the way that we are, is how we've been designed, and how our bodies are structured and how our brains are structured. Like, these are who we are, and everybody is different.

Jen Rafferty:
Right and normalizing all of humanity by celebrating all humans, it's really not that hard.

Shane Thrapp:
You would think so.

Jen Rafferty:
Great. I'm just so glad that we were able to spend time together talking about this really important topic. And I would love for you to share how can we get in touch with you if there are folks who are interested in learning more about you and the work that you do and the different places where you provide support.

Shane Thrapp:
Well, you can find me at www.creatingorderfromchaos.com the name of my business. You can find me on Facebook at Creating Order From Chaos Coaching, you can find my group on there, Men's ADHD support group. And you can also catch my work across all of social media really, I'm all over the place. Also as I said earlier, I'm part of the Inattentive ADHD coalition. And so you can find them just by Googling that.

Jen Rafferty:
Fantastic and all of those links will be in the podcast notes. So thank you so much again for your time and your talents today. Really appreciate it.

Shane Thrapp:
Thank you so much for having me on. I really enjoyed the conversation.

Jen Rafferty:
And if you enjoyed today's episode of take notes, be sure to leave a fantastic review and we will catch you next time.

Incredible right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

For the first day of Pride Month, I wanted to bring you an episode about how we can spread love and celebrate the LGBTQ+ community?

Today, I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with two remarkable individuals, Gidget Galore and Ginger Minj, who share their personal journeys and shed light on the power of drag.

Gidget Galore educated us on the world of Drag Queen Story Hour—a program that sparks love and acceptance in young hearts. She shares her firsthand account of the profound influence it has on shaping young minds and fostering inclusivity.

The LGBTQ+ community still faces intolerance and misunderstanding. In the face of adversity, Gidget Galore and Ginger Minj will share their stories of resilience and strength, reminding us all of the power of celebrating diversity and respecting one another.

Get ready to be moved, motivated, and inspired by the transformative potential of embracing one's true self!

Stay empowered,

Jen


Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room
About Ginger:

Originally hailing from small-town Leesburg, Florida, Ginger Minj made her first splash on the global stage as a finalist on RuPaul’s Drag Race Season 7. As a fan favorite and triple threat she was invited back for Drag Race All Stars 2 and made it to the top 3 of All Stars 6. She has starred in the Anne Fletcher helmed “Dumplin” for Netflix alongside Jennifer Aniston and Dove Cameron, in the Netflix series “AJ & The Queen”, and most recently in the Disney + Original Movie, “Hocus Pocus 2”. When she is not touring the world or appearing in movies and live theatrical shows, Ginger can be heard on her three studio albums, Sweet T, Gummybear and her newest EP, Double Wide Diva!


About Gidget:


Gidget Galore has been working in the entertainment industry for as long as he can remember. He has costumed, wigged, and dressed many shows and special events in and around Central Florida at theme parks and theaters including Walt Disney World, Universal Orlando, SeaWorld, Hard Rock Live, House of Blues, The Orlando Repertory Theatre, The Winter Park Playhouse, The Orlando Opera and The Orlando Philharmonic. Gidget has worked on the wardrobe team for entertainers including Donna Summer, Diana DeGarmo and The Jacksons. He has even created fabulous looks for the one and only Ginger Minj for Ru Paul’s Drag Race! Gidget has also designed for and performed in the Orlando International Fringe Theater Festival for many years. Currently, He took on the role of Rose, from the hilarious Golden Girls television hit series in 2018 when Gidget and Ginger decided to dive head first into the theatrical parody world of the “Golden Gals” and hasn’t stopped laughing since. Gidget Galore has been a professional Orlando female impersonator since 2006. Gidget has enjoyed entertaining the night club circuit, corporate galas, public (and private) events and, most recently, was honored by the Mayor of Orlando with his Matching Grant as the hostess of “Drag Queen Story Hour” reading to the wonderful youngsters of Orlando at the gay and lesbian center.


Connect with Ginger and Gidget:

Ginger’s IG: @gingerminj
Ginger Minj's cookbook


Gidget’s IG: @gidgetgalore


Sew Fierce
I Am What I Am single

TRANSCRIPT:  Jen Rafferty:
The state of affairs in education recently is tenuous on the surface and like a bubbling volcano seems as if it will explode or implode at any moment. And perhaps it already is. Books are being banned instead of allowing us to teach critical thinking skills. Laws are being passed that try to prevent us from saying certain things instead of teaching kids how to engage with each other when we disagree. And as educators, we have a civic duty to teach all children in the communities that we serve, and honor them and celebrate them as they grow into themselves and bring their gifts to the world. It is no one's job to pick and choose which children are worthy of learning, worthy of safety and worthy of a protective community.

All schools need to be places where all children feel seen, feel heard, and loved. Which is why I invited royalty to the show today. Two of the most spectacular talented and colorful drag queens Gidget Galore and Ginger Minj to share their experiences both in and out of school.

Gidget Galore has costumed wigs and dressed many shows and special events in and around Central Florida at theme parks and theaters, including Walt Disney World, Universal Orlando SeaWorld, Hard Rock Live, House of Blues, the Orlando Repertory Theater, the Winter Park Playhouse, the Orlando opera and the Orlando Philharmonic. Gidget has worked on the wardrobe team for entertainers, including Donna Summer, Diana DeGarmo and the Jacksons. He has even created fabulous looks for the one and only Ginger Minj for RuPaul’s Drag Race and most recently, he was honored by the mayor of Orlando with his matching grant as the hostess of drag queen story hour reading to the wonderful youngsters of Orlando at the gay and lesbian center.

Ginger Minge has made her first splash on the global stage as a finalist on RuPaul’s Drag Race season seven, and as a fan favorite and triple threat, she was invited back for Drag Race All Stars 2 and made it to the top of All Star 6. She has starred in the Anne Fletcher Helm Dumplin for Netflix alongside Jennifer Aniston and Dove Cameron in the Netflix series AJ and the queen. And most recently in the Disney plus original movie Hocus Pocus 2.

Please take a look at the show notes for their full bios and social media links. And today, as the first day of Pride Month, Ginger ‘s single I am what I am from the casual foe has been released and All proceeds go to the ACLU drag defense fund. This song and her campaign is all about celebrating all of us. Because we all deserve to be celebrated for who we are. Listen up and take notes as we talk about how we all need to spread more love in this world.

Introduction:
 Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed, and overwhelmed and frustrated.

But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you.

In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm, and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook.

It's time to take notes.


Jen Rafferty:
Hello and welcome back to the Take Notes podcast. I'm so glad you're here with our fabulous guests today, Gidget Galore and Ginger Minj. Thank you so much for being here today.

Ginger Minj:
Thanks for having us.

Gidget Galore:
Thank you. We're so excited.

Jen Rafferty:
I am so excited to have this conversation. So I would love to talk to you first about, you know, you, both of you have these big, gorgeous, glamorous careers and you all started in public school. So I wanna know a little bit about what was it like growing up in public school when you were kids.

Ginger Minj:
Well, you know, to be completely fair, I think our lives seem big and beautiful and glamorous, but it's not too different from growing up in public school. There's still the same amount of pressure to wear the right thing, say the right thing, and be friends with the right people, and you get bullied probably twice as much. So there's still a lot of the regular stress that I did grow up with. I think that public school really kind of, I don't know, prepared me a little bit to deal with that in the real world. And sometimes it still gets really crazy, particularly right now drag is such a hot-button issue for some reason.

Jen Rafferty:
Right. Yeah. We're talking about hair and makeup.

Ginger Minj:
You’re talking about hair and makeup and sequencing. Just being happy and spreading joy, you know, and that's kind of what I've tried to do my whole life in and out of drag. Even when I was back in school, you know, I always did the talent shows and I always tried to rally people together and make sure that field day was gonna be the most fun it could be. And I tried to be the cheerleader for everybody and some people just don't want to be cheered for.

Gidget Galore:
And of course, I grew up in upstate New York, so like I went to public school, I was in the same building from first grade until I left in 10th grade. I moved here to Florida. So I was in the same building. I could go all the way back to first grade. And I always felt like a little bit different because I didn't know what gay was. But now when I go back to upstate New York, there's the gay dance teacher and his husband that have the dance studio and then there's the florist and you're like, okay, this is getting a little stereotypical, but they are embraced in the community. And I was like, “Oh, there are the gay people in upstate New York.”

Ginger Minj:
Well, I kind of felt that way growing up too. It's like I didn't know exactly what I was, but I knew what I was and I didn't know that there were other people like me out there, which is why we've always tried to kind of be our authentic selves. My accents coming out, I'm sorry you make me talk about my past. But we've always tried to be as authentic as possible to kind of be that like beacon for those kids and, and people in general who feel like there's nobody else like them in the world as we didn't have that growing up. And it wasn't until we got a lot older and made a lot of bad decisions and choices and fell in with people we probably shouldn't have. We discovered that who we are is really kind of beautiful and that there are a lot of other people that share that same trait out there in the world.

But it got really bad for me when I was in school. I was bullied a lot. So I ended up dropping out in my eighth-grade year and I decided to homeschool and I homeschooled myself. It was before you could go online and do schooling. I went through a company called American School where I had all my textbooks sent to me in the mail. I had to do all my tests over the phone. And then once every month I had to go to a certified teacher and she had to give me this five-hour exam to make sure I was still where I needed to be.

Gidget Galore:
And then once a year you took PE.

Ginger Minj:
Just one time a year. I'd go run track. Yeah. But it was something that was just really so difficult for me to kind of wrap my head around open.

Jen Rafferty:
So school was not a place where you felt good.

Ginger Minj:
No, I mean there of course were moments when I felt like I shined when I was in school. I was lucky enough to have a lot of teachers who understood me before I understood myself and they protected me. But when I got into my seventh-grade year, I had a teacher who for no reason at all, I was always an exemplary student. I was always, you know, on the honor roll, I showed up on time. I was never late. I had never missed a day of school unless I absolutely had to. I was a very good student, but for some reason, she just didn't like me. And because she didn't like me, she didn't protect me. And it was to the point I was probably like the 20th time I had gotten beaten up and called a faggot that year, even though I didn't know what it meant.

I guarantee you that the people calling me that were just repeating something they had heard at home and didn't know what it meant either. I sat down with my mom and I was like, I can't physically do this anymore. It pushed me to the point of being very suicidal. It made me feel like I wasn't valued no matter how hard I tried to prove how worthy I was. And so we decided that the safest thing for me to do, especially for my mental health, was just to go to a homeschooling program. And my mom was also very good about keeping me in contact with different school activities. So I still got to go to prom with the friends that I knew from school. I still got to participate in the drama club at a school that I didn't go to but was down the street.

So I knew some of the people there and I still felt very involved, but a lot more protected in my own little bubble, which has its pros and cons in itself, you know? I felt like I was well-socialized, but I also feel like there were moments that I probably missed out on. And it was hard for a long time not to hold a grudge against that one particular teacher. And then a couple of years ago after I had gone through like extensive therapy and you know, I think that the therapy, there's such a stigma attached to it. I think people just need to be open to talking about themselves and their feelings. That's all it is.

Jen Rafferty:
Well, it is. We're working on it.

Ginger Minj:
Unload the big boxes and put them away. You know.

Gidget Galore:
It's a relationship. Like every good relationship, a boyfriend, girlfriend, your family, as you talk to them, you will call someone to vent. Yeah. Vent. So now we pay somebody to vent to, but the thing is like they have the education to back that up and tell you what does that mean? What do you think that means for you? How can you fix that? What can you do? And we know a lot of people that go to therapy and, and they're just like, it is, I look forward to it every Tuesday.

Ginger Minj:
Yes. It's also, had to learn to stop asking myself if I was crazy. So once I got past that hurdle, I started attacking everything else in my past that had made me feel really bad. And it came back around to that teacher and I looked her up a couple of years ago and just going through her Facebook, I never reached out to her because the Facebook posts that she made and all the things that she shared really showed me exactly who she was and showed me that she never hated me. She hated who she knew I was or what I was. All of her views are very narrow, they're very bigoted. And I think seeing somebody like myself who didn't know what to call myself or what the ins and outs of being a homosexual man meant she saw me just naturally being that. And suddenly in her head, I feel, and I'm just projecting at this point maybe, but I feel like she realized it's not a choice.

This person wouldn't choose this. This person is miserable and picked on and beat up and this that and the other thing. And I think it made her question a lot of how she felt about us as a people, as a community. And that helped me kind of jump that hurdle and deal with other people in my life who have now kind of taken up that role or tried to take up that role and tell me that I'm not worthy and I'm what I am as sick and depraved and twisted and dah, dah da. And then I realize, oh, this is more about you than it is about me.

Jen Rafferty:
It's all about them. Right? I mean, this is nothing to do with you.

Ginger Minj:
Yeah. And it's very difficult as somebody who is in the public eye who chooses to be an entertainer, it's easy to make it all about yourself. And you sing, the whole world revolves around you and everyone is either on your side or against you. It really has nothing to do with you.

Gidget Galore:
When you're talking about your teachers, growing up, in upstate New York, you know, a very small town, called Beaver Falls, New York. And I was bullied in school, but I didn't really understand that I was being bullied. I kind of thought that it was just normal because everybody kind of razzed each other. Like we went all the way from like, it was a farm and paper town. So like everyone's kind of country. And I didn't put on my first pair of jeans until I was in 11th grade. I wore slacks and cardigan sweaters. So of course I was called every name in the book, but I don't think it set me back because I really didn't think of it as something against me. I thought it was like just school. So when I thought about like when people say, “Oh, I was bullied so hard,” then you look back and you're like, “Yeah, so was I, I was slammed into a locker.”

I was this like, it was all of these things. And it comes back to like the teachers, there were teachers that were not very nice to me. Like, like you had, I had a teacher shove me back in a desk one day and tip over my desk and it was terrifying. But then you have other teachers that just kind of nurture you. And it was always the arts, music, you know, band, all of those things. The history teachers were the ones that got me. But yeah. But teachers are so important for that. They need to just, everybody's going through something everybody, you don't know what somebody's going through. And that's how I go through life now, is like, you don't know who's having a good day and who's having a bad day. So if somebody snaps at you, you kind of just gotta let it go at some point, because maybe their dog died, maybe they got a divorce, maybe they stubbed their toe and they broke it. You know, like who knows?

Ginger Minj:
But on the other side of that, you can't allow the way that they feel to color the rest of your day. I mean, I'm a very empathic kind of person. I'm very pathetic. I'm very empathetic. She's pathetic. So I've kind of been taught my whole life just to kind of grab onto the energy that people give you and let that kind of overtake your whole being. And there were a lot of times that, especially like after Drag race, traveling the world, doing meet and greets, I would always get in trouble because my meet and greet, you know, meet and greets are supposed to be like 30 to 45 seconds, take a picture and you go. But I was talking to each person for like 10, 15 minutes, which I love to do. To me that's the best part of the job is meeting people and hearing their stories.

But I also found myself at the end of a four-hour long meet and greet absorbing all of that sadness and all that trauma that gets dumped on me. It's different when you hear from one person like, “Oh, my cat is really sick and I got her from my grandmother. It's the only thing I have left to remember.” Whatever the story may be, however sad it is, you hear that four or 500 times in a different way. It really kind of put me into this walking funk. I would walk around just kind of absorbing all of their trauma, trying to take it away from them and realizing that it was really impacting the rest of my life as well.

And I only bring it up because you know, my sister is a fourth-grade special education teacher and she has been for 30 years now, her whole life has been dedicated to this. Before I started doing drag, I was actually her teacher's assistant for a couple of years. And I know that the teachers kind of have the same thing. They are, the dumping ground for trauma for all of their students. And, yes that is part of the job. We are there, to nurture and heal and help make everybody feel better about their lives and what they're going through. But she does the same thing. She lives with me in my house and I see her come home all the time just in tears.

Gidget Galore:
The emotional baggage. It's just…

Ginger Minj:
About because this kid can't afford the lunch. So now she has gone into her purse and given her last $20 for the week for them to have lunch, but now she can't pay for her kid to go on the field trip. So then I like it is just this whole big, it does take a village to raise one child. You know, it takes a lot of people and I just see the way that it affects her day after day after day and how she works so much and has nothing to show for it financially because all of her money ends up going right back into teaching and to supplies and to make sure that all of her kids are taken care of.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure. This is interesting, right? Because we're kind of moving from drag as a place and the queer experience as a kid growing up to really this parallel to being a drag performer and also being a teacher, right? Because you are standing up, there's a performance aspect in all of this and you are absorbing a ton of people's energy and a lot of trauma that we don't even realize. And so my question to you is how do you use your drag personas as a way to kind of shapeshift so you can navigate through some of those spaces?

Gidget Galore:
Well, I know for me, like I am so proud of, Orlando because of Drag Queen Story Hour. I have worked so hard for Drag Queen Story Hour, and our mayor has been amazing we've gotten the Mayor's Matching grant for the past three years now. So every book that I read to kids, they actually take home with them. And it's two books. And I think that it's like teaching love, teaching this, I kind of feel like I am a teacher reading these books to kids about love and acceptance. And that's why it hurts so much when we get this hatred and negativity that comes from Drag Queen Story Hour because we're grooming children or we're abusing children because we're reading a story about a duck that has a friend that's a cow. Like it, it doesn't make sense to me. So it hurts. That part hurts.

Ginger Minj:
Yeah, of course, it hurts. I mean I have dedicated my entire celebrity over the last 10 years to making sure that I am as visible as possible. Living as authentically as I can so that there aren't kids like me when I was growing up that felt like they had nobody. I still get messages from people who grew up either in the town that I grew up in or a place like it, saying I've always felt this way. I've always been treated this way. I've always been told that I wasn't worthy or I wasn't capable of doing anything that was gonna be worth anything one day. And then I saw you on TV and like me, you're fat, you're queer, you're this, you're that. And I finally had somebody that I felt like I could look up to and I'll be the first one to say, I am nobody's role model. That is not what I set out to be. Don't live your life like I live mine, but live it authentically for yourself, and don't be apologetic or ashamed of being who you are or what you were born to be. It gets twisted a lot.

Jen Rafferty:
You're an expander for people to see what's possible for themselves.

Ginger Minj:
Exactly. And that's all Drag Queen Story Hours has ever been. It's all any of these family-friendly drag shows have ever set out to do. It's just to show all of these kids who do get bullied and beat up and shoved into lockers and not protected by their teachers or not protected by their community or whatever. It's just to show them it does get better. All you have to do is hang on. All you have to do is continue to love yourself and love the people around you, even if they're not giving it back to you. And you will succeed. You will be exactly what you wanna be, when you need to be it, and where you need to be at. That's all it's ever been.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And that message is universal. And what's so interesting is that the more visible now that that drag has become, especially over the last 10, 15 years, right? I mean this is now, you know, mainstream. I mean RuPaul's Drag Race is a household name at this point.

Ginger Minj:
It’s the most Emmy award-winning reality show ever.

Jen Rafferty:
It's incredible. And so this story that we're sharing, this narrative, while it is for the kids who are looking at you both and saying, you know, where do I fit into this world? And seeing possibility, it's also for everybody to expand their perspective of what exists in this space and how beautiful the, you know, spectrum the humans are and how colorful and gorgeous then we need to see that and honor it and celebrate. And I think that this is the most beautiful way you can do that.

Gidget Galore:
And that's the crazy thing is like a few years back, I know that we talked about it like it was Drag Race has opened up so many doors for just anybody to see drag queens and now it's just so normal. So what's happening now hurts even more that you're like, wait a second, you're the ones that are celebrating. Like, this is so great. There are so many different people in the world. And all of a sudden it's like, Oh no, not those people. Like it's so…

Ginger Minj:
But what I love so much about drag now that it has become so mainstream is that it's not gay men in dresses, lip-syncing songs. It has been expanded so much. There are cis-gendered women who do drag, which is one of my favorite types of drag because, to me, drag's always been just a celebration of femininity. And if you can take somebody who's already hyper-feminine and then amped that up even more, it's so exciting for me to watch.

Gidget Galore:
It makes me mad their makeup is too good.

Ginger Minj:
Well, we have a Venus Envy here in Orlando who is, she's the ASISs queen and she's just incredible. You can't touch that makeup. Beautiful. So beautiful. Even on Drag Race, we had a heterosexual cis-gendered straight man, Maddy Morphosis in the last season who has a beautiful, gorgeous girlfriend and just happens to enjoy the art of drag and celebrating with the community. So you have drag from everywhere. It's for everybody.

Gidget Galore:
It's just an artistic entertainment outlet. Yeah. That's all it is. It's like being an actor or being a voice actor or a cartoonist.

Ginger Minj:
In drag. I think it also needs to be said is like any other form of entertainment, whether it's music or movies or plays or television, there's drag for everybody. So not everything is gonna be appropriate for children, but that's not being marketed toward children. You wouldn't take a spikey movie and say, this is for general audiences. Bring the kids. Fun for the whole family. You would put the necessary,

Gidget Galore:
We're gonna do a double feature SpongeBob and Saw. Yeah. You're like, no.

Ginger Minj:
No. Nobody would do that. Like it just use a little common sense and you'll realize that it is being marketed appropriately when it is appropriate for which demographic it's appropriate towards.

Gidget Galore:
And trust me that the entertainers that we work with personally, I don't know about the entire world, but our entertainers, they know the market that they're in. They know it's fun, they know it's this, they know it's the theatrical thing for children.

Ginger Minj:
And again, the other thing that I've had to say in interviews and stuff, it just came outta my mouth one day. I was like, it's true. I do wanna be the beacon of hope for people who are different and feel lost cause they don't have anybody to look up to. But I don't want your kids at my show if they don't have any money.

I want people there that are gonna tip me and pay for the tickets and really appreciate what we're doing. I just want it to be a safe space for everybody. And if that means that it's a family-friendly show that a family wants to attend with their children, I think that that would be okay. As long as all the boxes are checked that everybody's minding their Ps and Qs and doing, what needs to be done. But we're not actively marketing toward children. It's such a misguided narrative.

Jen Rafferty:
It really is. And it's a distraction from a whole lot of other things that are going on because like we said at the beginning, this is all so joyful and just common sense. It reminds me that we can reinvent ourselves. And this is the thing too, you know, when you are on a platform that is so visible, you get to become a translator for the masses. And that's something that's really powerful.

Ginger Minj:
It is. And it's something we will never take for granted, ever. And that's why I wrote my book, Southern Fried Sass. You know, it's, yes it is a cookbook, but it's more, it's like a cookbook slash tell-all slash memoir. So it is my full life story told through what my love language is, food obviously. So it's told through the recipes that people, particularly my grandmother before she passed away had shared with me. And my grandmother had a way of protecting me when I was little by taking me to the kitchen and Oh God, I'm gonna get choked up talking about it. But she would take me to the kitchen to get me away from the people in my family that were bullying me. And she always told me, if you fill their mouths full of love, there's no room for them to spit out the hate. And that's why we wrote this book. It took me four years to write it, but it's my whole story and I've been encouraging people. I know it seems like a shameless plug, but I promise I'm going somewhere with it.

Jen Rafferty:
Oh, oh. Go there. Yeah.

Ginger Minj:
I've been encouraging people to buy a copy for themselves and then buy a copy and send it to somebody who maybe does not understand our community, who maybe doesn't think that who we are is valid, or doesn't get why we do what we do and encourage them to read it, encourage them to kind of absorb the story. It's told much like drag in a very palatable, fun, funny way. There are little bits of gossip in there if you like RuPaul's Drag Race. But I think it will open a lot of people's eyes to the humanity that we possess.

Gidget Galore:
Right. So entertainers, we're all people, we all have a grandmother, we all have favorite recipes, and we all have our favorite foods. To read the book, it's great. To read that somebody goes, “Oh my gosh, she went through the same thing that I did.” Or “Oh well your grandmother really loved you but you had an uncle that maybe wasn't so lovely.” Like we all have that. We're all humans. So we all have those stories and to just be like, oh, drag queens weren't just shoved under a rock. Like they're, we all have a past.

Ginger Minj:
We have a past and we've been around since the beginning of time, especially since the beginning of entertainment. And there's a saying at the beginning of the book that nobody is a hero and nobody is a feeling. And while you're reading the story, all of these people that seem like the worst people in the world that have been involved in my life, by the end of it, you see their humanity as well. You see how they have may, I won't say redeemed cuz that seems like too much of a trope, but they have definitely grown as people they've come to understand. And even if they don't understand, they respect me for who I am, including my father, including my uncles. So I think it's a story that everybody can relate to. Everybody in the world has experienced a lot of the things that I've experienced, that Gidget experienced, that you've experienced. And I think that that's something that's so universal that people will definitely gain a lot from reading it.

Gidget Galore:
And it's like different family members and things like that. Like people that you meet, people that you hold the door open for and they don't say thank you. They're also teachers. They teach you something whether you realize it or not at the time, but it teaches you, well I don't wanna be that person or what do I take away from this and what do I learn from this? And I know that I've got family members, I've got certain friends that, well actually they're just acquaintances. They're not really friends anymore because I've learned how to take the knowledge that they give me and put that into my life. How do I want to live my life? And, if I don't agree with that, that's the lesson that I've taken away from that. Like, “Oh, I don't wanna be like that.”

Ginger Minj:
Yeah, I mean, well I mean look at this, this teacher that I had that basically forced me to go into homeschooling. Yes. I learned more from her about the rest of the world and how I would have to protect myself than I had learned in my first seven or eight years of school. You know, I learned more in that nine months with that one teacher that I didn't enjoy. But I took the lessons and I have applied them and I think that they've made me better. And I honestly hope that at some point in her life, she's been confronted with it and she's had to really kind of deal with who she is and how she thinks about other people or, at least how she treats other people. Yeah. Cuz you don't have to like us, but you probably should respect us because we respect you.

Jen Rafferty:
For sure. And again, it's just recognizing our humanity. And I'll say that there's this one phrase that I use all the time when there's somebody who's just not on the same wavelength and it's, you know, we love that journey for them. It's their journey. You know, love and light, love that journey for you and that's it.

Ginger Minj:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Gidget Galore:
I hope you have a day as pleasant as yourself. That's one of my favorite lines. Love it. Oh, I hope you have a day as pleasant as yourself.

Jen Rafferty:
So, both of you are based in Orlando and I'd love to know a little bit about what that's been like.

Ginger Minj:
The thing about Florida is, it's just such a beautiful melting pot of people, which is why I've been here my whole life. I have not taken the opportunity to move anywhere. I mean, I could move to New York or LA for my career, it would probably benefit me, but I've never wanted to leave because I've always wanted to celebrate this place because it's always been so beautiful, which is why it's so scary. I guess scary is the word, but more disappointing. I think that's the best word. Everything is disappointing going on right now. I'm disappointed. I'm very disappointed. I'm very sad. And not just for us in the drag community.

Like I said, my sister's been a teacher for 30 years. I know how scary and sad it's been for her. I know that the lesson plans that she's been teaching for the last three decades, suddenly she's not allowed to teach those or talk about them. And she's not even allowed to acknowledge that I am her brother because of who I am and what I do. Which is such a shame because, you know, drag race appeals to everybody and there's a lot of, every time I would go if she would forget something at home and I'd run her her lunch or I'd go and pick up my nephew because she had to stay late. There's always a gaggle of teachers and parents and a couple of the kids that are like, “Oh my gosh, I saw you on tv.” And it was always just a very sweet thing. And now just to protect her, it's like, well just don't even acknowledge that I exist. Which is very sad to me because we've always been such a close-knit family. I mean, my husband and I, bought a house so that my mom and my sister, and my two nephews could move in with us so that we can have the whole family together. And it's just become such a touchy, sad, scary, disappointing environment around that.

Gidget Galore:
And I think we realized that even more like this past year we, well, like the past two years we have traveled so much. We have spent more time away from Florida than we have been at home. And it is so crazy to go to different parts of the country and feel so different about community and how you've like just been welcomed in some, and then it almost was sad to come home to Florida because it was really a shit show.

Ginger Minj:
If our shows are 18 plus and there are no children in there in the first place?

Gidget Galore:
No.

Ginger Minj:
It's sad and it's scary and it has made me, for the first time in my life, feel a little ashamed to be a Floridian.

Jen Rafferty:
So, you know, you started all of that saying how proud you were to be there and that this was your home and this was a place for, you know, to stand your ground in some way. And I imagine this is kind of going back to what we even started with at the beginning of the conversation, just constantly getting bullied now on a bigger level. And we need you, we as the people who are behind you, need you. And I imagine it being extremely difficult being on the front lines of all of this and not totally knowing what your next step is going to be.

Ginger Minj:
Yeah. It's so scary, particularly in Orlando because of everything that we've gone through in the past decade with hatred and bigotry and all that. And it felt like after certain things happened here, the whole community banded together.

Gidget Galore:
You really did.

Ginger Minj:
And it was great. It was strong.

Jen Rafferty:
With all that being said, what is your wish and your dream for the future of education?

Ginger Minj:
I just wish, honestly that people could respect one another. I mean, and it sounds so trite, but it's so true. It's been my wish my entire life. I automatically respect everybody. And I'm not demanding that you respect me, but I'm asking you as a fellow human being to show me the same respect that I give to you. I approach everybody in my life loving them, liking them, and cheering them on until they give me a reason not to do any of those things.

Gidget Galore:
You've got a perfect score stepping in.

Ginger Minj:
It's like a drag pageant. You step on stage with a perfect score and it's what you do, the little flaws that you've made that tick off those boxes.

Gidget Galore:
And I've gone through my entire life and I will until the day that I take my last breath. I know what a gift life is. We are here for such a short time and I choose to live my life the way that makes me happy and I hope makes other people happy because I know that it's such a gift. So I fill my entire life with just having the best time because why fill it with hate when there's so much that's great and so many great people And if you don't like me, that's fine. There are plenty of people that do. But that's how I go through life.

Ginger Minj:
Yeah. And we have actually started releases on the 1st of June. Gidget and I with my husband CJ, have started the “I Am What I Am” campaign, which all of the proceeds will go to benefit the ACLU's Drag Defense Fund. And I got to sing, I Am What I Am from La Cage Aux Folles a couple of years ago at the Trailblazer Awards. It was a great moment in my life. One of my favorite songs, in three years, people have asked me to record it. So I finally sat down and recorded it. We're going to release it on June 1st with this campaign. And it celebrates everybody. Straight people, gay people, trans people, allies, children, families, anybody from any walk of life. It celebrates them for who they are. And that's really kind of our goal with all of our drag. Yeah. Just to celebrate people.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And I'm so glad you mentioned that because that was going to be my next question for you- is tell us about this new campaign, cuz I saw it and I will say, I've seen you perform that and it is one of my favorite songs too. La Cage Aux Folles is my favorite. Love that movie. I mean, it just, it speaks to me on all levels and your performance of it was just fantastic.

Ginger Minj:
Well, what's really scary is that I actually got to play Alban and La Cage last year and it was before even all of the stuff against the drag community started coming out. And I was sitting there in rehearsals going, whoa, this is a lot more relevant today than it was when it was written 40 years ago. This is why I'm advocating right now to all of your listeners, we need to do a Broadway revival starring me because we have not had, and that's what one thing that all of the reviews that came to my production in Chicago said, you know, it's the first time we've seen an actual drag artist who has come from that background and that community play this role. And it really, it colors it in a very different way. It's, it's very authentic. And I think that something like that, that story is so important to get back out there right now. So this is my shameless plug to say, Hey, let's do La Cage Aux Folles on Broadway starring me. And maybe these people can come in and kind of see much like the book come in and see that we're just friends and families and all that. And we just wanna have a good time.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, a hundred percent. And also hopefully it serves as a reminder, just like we were talking about before we started recording, it gives you a reason to remember that you don't need excuses to wear sequins any day. Everybody can wear them whenever they want. Look fabulous. Anytime you want. Just be you because as you said, Gidget, nobody gets out of here alive. So more love, more love, more love.

Ginger Minj:
Yeah. That's it. You just remember good makeup isn't cheap and cheap makeup isn't good.

Jen Rafferty:
Fantastic parting words, but in the meantime, I will make sure that all of the things that we talked about are in the show notes so people can get access to your book, to the ACLU link, and that campaign to the link to So Fabulous. Which is so incredibly fabulous. And I'm just so grateful for your time and your talents. Thank you so much for being here for the Take Notes audience today.

Ginger Minj:
Thank you.

Gidget Galore:
Thank you.

Ginger Minj:
Oh, we appreciate you. That's been a great chat.

Jen Rafferty:
Thank you. And if you enjoy today's episode, please make sure you leave a review and we'll see you next time on Take Notes.

Incredible right? Together we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible and it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

Do you feel like your students hate the idea of going to school? Are you running out of ideas to keep them engaged and excited about learning new things?

In this episode, I had a conversation with Elijah Carbajal, a teacher whose main drive is to make school a place for students to love. We dive into how he views school culture and how he transforms the teaching norms into what young kids would understand.

Elijah emphasizes how much better learning could be by using language or games or pop culture references that kids would understand. And by telling captivating stories and incorporating the subject matter within it as moral lessons, the students are kept engaged and wanting for more. As his book says, school becomes “A Place They Love.”

We also talked about the ways of keeping the school fun, engaging, and safe, and we challenged the notion that learning can either be fun or rigorous and hard. Elijah dials in on the truth that when things get more fun, learning becomes even more rigorous, except it becomes less hard and more engaging for the students.

Elijah’s stories will encourage you to be bolder, more creative, and more engaged with your students more than ever.

Ready to transform your classroom into a place that the students will love?

Tune in to this episode filled with inspiring stories and valuable takeaways!


Stay empowered,

Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
 Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room
About Elijah:


Elijah is a teacher, like his mom, uncle, and grandparents before him. He has been teaching in the state of New Mexico since 2014, currently working in the Albuquerque Public School district. Elijah enjoys podcasting about all things educational and listening to podcasts created by his friends in education, some of which he has been honored to be a guest on. He is the host of The Shut Up and Teach Podcast and the author of the book A Place They Love: Creating a Healthy School Culture and Positively Impacting Students. Elijah strives to make school a place that students love to be at by creating fun, safe, and engaging experiences and environments for all students. By challenging the norms of what education should look, act, and feel like, Elijah has created exciting opportunities for authentic learning to take place. Outside of the classroom, he can be found running, listening to or creating music, reading, or relaxing with his cat, Nala.

Connect with Elijah:


Twitter: @carbaeli
IG: @carbaeli

TRANSCRIPT: Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed, and overwhelmed and frustrated.

But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you.

In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm, and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook.

It's time to take notes.

Jen Rafferty:
Hello and welcome back to another fabulous episode of Take Notes. Today I am here with my guest, Elijah Carbajal, who is a teacher like his mom, uncle, and grandparents before him. And he's been teaching in the state of New Mexico since 2014, currently working in the Albuquerque Public School District.

He is the host of the Shut Up and Teach podcast and the author of the book, A Place They Love, creating a healthy, school culture and positively impacting students. Elijah strives to make school a place for students love to be at by creating fun, safe, and engaging experiences and environments for all students.

By challenging the norms of what education should look, act, and feel like, Elijah has created exciting opportunities for authentic learning to take place. And outside of the classroom, he can be found running, listening to, or creating music, reading, or relaxing with his cat, Nala. Hey Elijah, thanks for being here.

Elijah Carbajal:
How are you? Thanks for having me, Jen.

Jen Rafferty:
I am so good and I'm so glad to have this conversation. I know I saw your work on Twitter actually and was interested in your book and all of the cool things that you post about, and of course, we share a music background.

Elijah Carbajal:
Yes, literally a music background right now.
Jen Rafferty:
Me too.

Elijah Carbajal:
My piano, my piano's in front of me. You can't see the piano on my screen.

Jen Rafferty:
Very cool. Yeah. So for those of you who can't see, obviously, cuz you're listening, Elijah has awesome guitars in the back. Is that bass right behind you too?

Elijah Carbajal:
Uh, yep. Five-string bass.

Jen Rafferty:
Fantastic. Yep. And of course, I'm always sitting in front of my piano and my guitar is over here too, so maybe at the end, we'll, uh, Play a song or something,

Elijah Carbajal:
Hey, hey, let's see what happens. Yeah?

Jen Rafferty:
There are weirder things that happen on a podcast. So anyway, so let's kinda get into this. What I'm curious to know, what was it that was the catalyst for you to really focus on creating healthy school cultures?

Elijah Carbajal:
So, school culture. So, thank you. That's a great question. And you know, it's something that I'm happy to talk about.

Obviously, my book is about school culture. So you know when, when it came down to it, I noticed that I was learning things about school culture within my own classroom. So I was building a healthy classroom culture, and I noticed other teachers doing the same within theirs, and I just noticed that as each teacher was kind of focusing on their individual classroom and impacting the students that they could impact, the school culture itself began to become a little more healthier.

And so what I decided to do when I decided to write this book, I had been blogging before that and I noticed there was this theme of just like, “school needs to be fun, school needs to be engaging, school needs to be safe”. Like kids need to love school.

That's the sign to me of a healthy school culture when kids are excited to actually come back to school. And so, that was kind of the birth of that idea. And then, that's where the name came from, A Place They Love. And so the book itself focuses really on impacting school culture by impacting students directly, by positively impacting students.

When I think of school culture, you know, I think of, you know, the practices, you know, the norms, the way we interact with each other, the mindsets, the philosophies of the school itself. But I think we have to remember, we, we, a lot of times we think, oh, that's like the adults, right? That's the adults. That's how the teachers interact with each other, how they do that.

But it's also what the students like, they're like, schools are built for students, not for adults. And so the true sign of a healthy school culture is- how do the kids feel? How do the kids feel? Are the kids feeling like they actually love to be there? And if they are, you know, good on us, and if not, what can we do to make those changes?

And so that's what the book offers to a lot of the teachers, who are looking to build a healthy school culture and are just lots of tips for how you can impact your students, within your own classroom. How you can take what they do outside and celebrate inside the classroom. So you're celebrating the whole child, right?

And so, By doing those things, by, by all the tips and things that I've learned through my experience and have learned through research and practice and all that that I mentioned in the book, I've just noticed there's a healthy shift in the school culture when those things are in place.


And so it's, my book isn't a cure-all. It's not gonna fix every problem in the world, right? But it's really gonna motivate the teachers to do what they're capable of. Not, you know, not going to like working yourself into an early grave or anything like that, but what you're capable of to make school a place that kids love. Because when we start doing that, we'll see the shift in the school culture.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure. And I think, you know, as you're talking, it needs to also be a place that adults love.

Elijah Carbajal:
It does. Right. It does

Jen Rafferty:
Because they don't often, right now, especially, and I think that's part of the problem, is we've gone so far away from, you know, you've, you've described fun, engaging, safe, and yes, we want fun, engaging, safe for kids.

And that also needs to happen kind of at, at these different, macro levels of the school culture, right? Because I'm sure you've heard many of these same stories that are just tragic, that are what's happening right now. And, the fun, engaging, safe is just being sucked out of everything.

So can you talk a little bit about that too, because creating something that is vibrant, like what you're describing as this school culture can't come from a place that is absent of oxygen.

Elijah Carbajal:
Yes. Yes. So, it does need to be a place that adults love. It does. And, you know, I, I came to that realization myself when I, when I decided that what I was teaching was no longer fun for me. Like, I dread teaching this because I don't like it and it's boring. And so I had to come up with something for my kids, but it was also for me because it was like, I'm not good at teaching this the way it is presented. I think it was grammar. Right.

Jen Rafferty:
Good. I was gonna ask you, what, what was it?

Elijah Carbajal:
It was grammar. It was definitely grammar. And, so, you know, making a shift to make it fun, it wasn't a big shift. I didn't do something over the top. I started with something simple, of just using images without any words at all, letting the kids come up with their own sentences, and then picking them apart. Like, okay, where's your, now, where's your verb? Like is there a possessive noun in this, in this sentence that you wrote?

And so, you know, just doing things like that, but using relevant images, right? It's not like, oh, because I tried one, I tried one with the Joker, like Heath Ledger's Joker. And the kids knew it was the Joker, but they had no idea it was. Heath Ledger, like they didn't know that Joker.

And so I was like, okay, you gotta use something they actually can relate to. Fortnite images, Minecraft. I think I used Roblox, the Avengers, like things that they could connect with. So that they were actually excited about seeing this image and seeing all that and, and writing about it.

So, but again, it made it fun for me cuz now I'm like, “Oh, okay. Like what, what other picture would they connect with?” Like, Minecraft was a big hit, but like, well Roblox will be even better? Like, let me try that, and then I stepped it up and I went to music videos.

So I remember showing the music, a couple music videos and the kids had to pick up, and pick apart. Like, okay, you need to identify. Like five nouns. Five verbs, like, and then try to put them into a sentence. And the kids were able to do it because it was, it was speaking in their language, it was engaging and it was fun, but I had to change. Right. For me too, it wasn't a shift just for them. It was a shift for me because now it was like, “Oh, okay, I, I don't dread this. I don't, I don't look forward to this. Like I actually do look forward to teaching this lesson now.” And so, yeah, it's about having fun.

I talk in the book about being, in, being an engaged teacher yourself. Right. We need to engage students, but we also should engage ourselves. I describe a football lesson where I've set up tape across my classroom in one-yard increments. Kids have PE jerseys, you know those old, reversible ones?

Jen Rafferty:
Yep. Like the pennies?

Elijah Carbajal:
Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So one side's green, the other side's yellow, and it's just a simple math review, but we put it, we gamified it. And then I stepped it up by wearing the referee uniform, and was like, call in plays and stuff like that.

And it was like, you know, I got so into it that I would do stuff like, “Hold on, I need to review that play. Like, and after further review like the student was correct, it is a touchdown,” like, you know, or whatever. And just having fun with it myself, right? Because I realized that. It's better if we all have fun together, right?

Like I can do something that's really engaging for me, like a Heath Ledger, or Batman reference, but if it doesn't connect with them, right? It doesn't work. So it works better if everybody's connecting with what we're doing and everybody's having that fun, like you said, for sure. So yeah, school definitely needs to be a place that teachers love, that principals love too, you know.

I think about some of these principals I see, you know, I had a principal one time that came out to the playground, started playing tetherball with these kids, and that line of kids just got longer and longer. I just love it. You know, I think that school should be a place that is enjoyable for everyone. Yeah.

Jen Rafferty:
You know, as you're talking, it's just so funny to think about. The work that I do right now, personally, the way that I navigate my decisions about what I wanna do, joy and pleasure are always one of the top things that I look for to decide “Am I gonna do this thing or am I gonna do this thing?” Which is kind of an unusual way to think about running a business. And, but, but what I think is, is so interesting is when I have these conversations with teachers and administrators about using this idea of joy and fun and pleasure. They're kind of these two schools of thought.

One of them is like exactly what you're describing right now is like, I mean, Elijah, your face lit up as you were telling these stories. Like I felt like I was there. We were in it, right? And, people who just prioritize joy and fun. And then there's this other school of thought where it's like, well, school needs to be rigorous and challenging and hard.

And what I would like to challenge folks, and I'm curious to know about your thoughts about this is why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't it be rigorous and joyful and challenging and pleasurable?

Elijah Carbajal:
Yeah. Yeah. You're hitting on some topics that are in the book itself. There's a chapter in there called, “Sorry, Fun Friday's Over”, and I really speak to the fact that like, at some point in history and education, education history, we bought into this lie that if it's fun, it's not educational.

Right? And that education, like rigorous education in a good, strong foundational education means that we're handing out these rigorous worksheet packets, right? Or it's drill and kill or, You know, just, just that old school mentality of like teaching, like “no, you're here to learn, like you're here to learn”.

And then on Friday, we can have fun, but like the rest of the week, “No, we're taking this seriously”.

Jen Rafferty:
Right. Drill and kill on Monday through Thursday, but like Friday fun. Friday fun. Right? Ridiculous.

Elijah Carbajal:
So I had never heard of that because I was so, I was homeschooled. I was for those listening because I was homeschooled from K through 12.

So I had no public school, like background at all going into it, which is a whole other story. But yeah, the first time I heard a fun Friday I was like, we've been having fun all week though. Like we've been doing some crazy science labs. We've gone outside multiple times. We've played football in the classroom.

My kids are happy when they leave and they're happy when they get here. Like, “Why do I need to wait for Friday to do all these things when I can give 'em these opportunities now?” I mean, it sounds cliche, but we're not promised tomorrow, right?

We don't know if Friday's gonna come. Some of those kids may not be here. You know, the next, you know, the next time, for whatever reason, a lot of kids transfer to different schools, move away, get sick, whatever the case may be. We're not promised that.

And so I really just believe that we should take the opportunity as it comes to us to give kids those opportunities to and to make it fun. That makes it fun for ourselves too, you know? You gotta love what you do.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And a place they love it needs to be, you know that for, like you said, for everybody. And when we prioritize the joy and the fun, uh, everything starts to change.

And that's a big part I imagine of what you're talking about with a culture shift is that it doesn't just happen in these small pockets of, well, today we're gonna do a fun activity. But tomorrow it's back to work. That's not how we change culture.

Elijah Carbajal:
Right, no, not at all. And you know, you, you brought up something, it's like, it's either fun or it has to be rigorous, right?

And what I've noticed is that when you incorporate more fun, it does become more rigorous when kids have that buy-in and they're excited about what they're doing. And you see those smiles on their faces, but it does become hard or challenging. They stick with it, right? I think about all the science, like engineering labs that I kind of put together where kids had to build things on cardboard and like, you know, all this, you know, just different things.

They did challenges where they had to melt a snowball, but they couldn't use anything but what they found in their surroundings. Just, you know, fun stuff like that. Where it was fun and engaging, but also rigorous at the same time. That required problem-solving, right? Critical thinking, all these different skills because we're having fun, right?

And a lot of people are thinking, “Oh, it's fun, it's not educational.” And I'm like, no, we're hit in life skills. We're hitting teamwork, and problem-solving. You know, not to mention the standards, you know, all the standards that I'm actually hitting, you know, with the content. So, You know, I'd push back on that and say, you know, if it's fun, it's not rigorous.

No. I'd say if it's fun, it can lead to even more rigorous work from the students. Not that I'm making it rigorous, but they're stepping it up themselves.

Jen Rafferty:
A hundred percent. And the science backs this up. And that's the thing that drives me insane because we, we know this. We actually know these things.

We know that kids, but everybody, but particularly kids learn better when there's an element of play. We understand that stress causes this increase in cortisol, which initiates our stress response, which actually makes learning less possible for people. And so like we.

We know all of this. However, the way that we run our schools and the way that they're set up don't actually reflect the science. And really what we're doing is we're not lowering the bar, we're lowering the barriers. And I, I think that's really an important piece of, of what I think needs to be understood about this conversation that we're having right now, is that fun doesn't mean lowering the bar.

Elijah Carbajal:
No, not at all.

Jen Rafferty:
It's making it accessible.

Elijah Carbajal:
Yes, yes. Absolutely. It may, you know, I. You know, I'm thinking particularly about an, uh, uh, something that we did. I had a lot of reluctant readers and so I knew that's because some of them struggled with it. You know, reading was a struggle for them as math is for other students and whatever.

And so I did have some students that were hesitant to read and reluctant to read for one year, and so I knew I had to engage them. Not just, I wasn't like, “I'm sorry, but you have to read. That's the way it is. You have to read”. It was like, “Let me see if I can get them engaged in the content before the curriculum.”

So I set up a science lab that matched what we were reading about in our English language arts that, you know, we were studying non-fiction texts. So I set up what we were learning about in the non-fiction as an actual, hands-on experience to engage the kids, which brought up vocabulary that could be discussed in context, right?

So then going back into it a couple of days later to revisit the page. Now those hesitant readers were like, “Oh, I know this vocabulary word. I know what this actually looks like because I've seen it. I, you know, actually physically saw it and touched it and did all this.” And it just made it so much more accessible for them.

So by putting the play in before, by access, by giving them access to the content before the curriculum itself, it opened the door for them to learn even more.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And again, it's more fun for you.

Elijah Carbajal:
Yes, yes. Absolutely. I mean, I love reading, but like teaching, reading by reading is like not effective all the time.

So it's like, yeah. We got more out of it. I got more out of it, because I just decided to change it up a little bit and have fun with it, you know?

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And I think that's where a lot of people are getting stuck right now. Especially as we're kind of like in this, we have a collective COVID brain fog.

Elijah Carbajal:
Yes.

Jen Rafferty:
You know what I mean?

Elijah Carbajal:
Yes.

Jen Rafferty:
And everyone's just like, like fatigued and just in this space of we're just kind of getting the next day going. And so what I am hearing you say, and what's, what's kind of coming to me is that in. Having a reframe and moving your spot at the table so you're looking at something in a different way could actually ignite some joy, could ignite some passion, and reconnect with something that maybe feels nostalgic right now of the reason why you're there, of what even you wanted to do in the first place.

Is that something that you, that resonates? Is that an accurate interpretation?

Elijah Carbajal:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Jen Rafferty:
I think that you know, finding that joy. Even when making that joy a priority can shift a whole lot of perspective.

Elijah Carbajal:
It does. Yes. Perspective for sure. And joy. You know, I mean, I feel like joy, not happiness, but joy itself is like medicine.

It really is. And it, and so I think we start to see our emotional state, right? Be better, right? I know when I'm having fun, when I'm playing mentally I'm, and emotionally I'm in a good place. So a lot of teachers need that. You know, I need that for myself. I need that in my home life.

I need it at school because it does, it brings me joy, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. It recharges me in a way, it drains me a little bit while I'm doing it, but at the same time, it does fulfill me.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, it's like that different kind of engagement. Right. So can I ask, what kind of things bring you joy?

Elijah Carbajal:
Oh, man. The things that bring me joy, uh, first of all, and she, so I sent you, I must have sent you like an old bio because she's not mentioned. But my wife Tracy, definitely needs to be mentioned now. She is my favorite person in the whole world. You know, we worked together. That's how we met. She was the art teacher, and I was a fourth-grade teacher at this school in Aztec, New Mexico.

And, you know, we eventually found our way together, you know, over the course of however many years and, you know, going through different things personally, but, you know, eventually came together and, you know, we, you know, we click so well, you know, we have, I love our conversations that we have together.

In fact, we were just talking, so Thursday night was like our reflection night where we like to sit down and it's like, “Okay, how did the week really go?” Like before we get to Friday? Cuz Friday comes and I'm like, No, I'm not talking about school. So Thursday, we kind of need these times to have this, this moment together where we can look back and say, this is how my week really went and this is how I wanted to go next week and this, these are my plans and these are my hopes.

And so we spent a lot of time reflecting together, but we also had a lot of fun. Last night was date night on the couch. And we ordered candy that we didn't need and had popcorn and pickles and watched old animated movies and it was a blast. She's my confidant. You know, she's my everything. So I love her to death and I'm very thankful for her.

My cat, I love my cat to death. She is kind of the, I know I joke about it, but, she is kind of in a way my own emotional support animal, as much as a cat can be, and, but I, you know, you can see the guitars in the background. I love music, whether I'm listening to it. You know, playing it, you know, creating my own music.

I love poetry, you know, I, that stems from music and I just love words itself. And so just being able to play with words and kind of make words come to life on a pagein a creative way. It brings a lot of joy.

I love to read too. Reading is one of those things, whether it's non-fiction or fiction. But what I found actually recently is that I love listening to non-fiction, but I prefer to read physical copy fiction.

Jen Rafferty:
So interesting. Well,I'm really glad that you shared, and again, I wish everyone could just see your face light up when you are talking about the things that bring you joy, particularly your wife.

And, I ask because we get so wrapped up in our job because it becomes the spotlight of our identity. And so I think folks really forget about reconnecting to the things that bring them joy because they're so tired. Or, they don't prioritize it or they don't, they think they have to earn that time.

But the truth is when you seek out the things that light you up, that's when you come alive. And that's when you actually get to show up in the spaces that you care so much about and make the impact that you said you wanted to make when you first started teaching. I mean, that's the stuff, and everything you just said for you, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your work. And you bring that joy though with you into the classroom.

Elijah Carbajal:
Absolutely. You know, that balance is so important, and my wife and I have been talking about, you know, getting to a point in our career where it's like, I'm gonna do what I'm capable of at this moment, but if I'm not capable of it and it's gonna do more damage than good, I'm gonna leave it here and I'm gonna come back to it tomorrow.

So things like setting boundaries to make sure that I do those things that bring me joy is super important. One of the big boundaries I set this year was that, I'm not bringing work home, at all. The last school I was at, for whatever reason, we were all having printer issues. Wasn't connecting to printers. So I was printing stuff at home. Like I was bringing a lot of work home and printing for my personal printer and things like that, staying at work late, right? Getting to work excessively early, you know, and I'm like, “That's gotta stop cuz that's not good for my mental health and it's not good for me because now it's prohibiting me from doing the things that bring me joy and light up my face.”

The thing is I love my job. I do, I love being a teacher. I love being an educator. I love being a title one, uh, reading interventionist now, especially, and I don't wanna lose that joy of that either. I don't wanna lose that joy of being a teacher by overworking myself too much.

So I had to set that boundary of like, “Okay, I'm not gonna bring work home. I'm not staying late, you know? I still get to work maybe 10 minutes early or so, but that's really more so, so I can turn the coffee on for everybody.” But you know, I said that's the boundary. Okay, what do I need to do to make sure that that boundary doesn't get crossed?

And then that led to the next thing of this is my prep time. Don't interrupt it. Like, I'm sorry to be that guy, but unless it's an absolute emergency like this is my time. You know, as per, you know, negotiated contract, this is my uninterrupted prep time for me to do what I need to do to be prepared for whatever.

And so I really started using that time wisely and not squandering it. And I made sure that it's like, okay, I've got a list, not like a crazy to-do list, but like these are some things coming up and I make sure that I'm on top of it. And so making sure that I use my time appropriately, the time that I'm given, appropriately ensures that when I leave right at four o'clock when that bell rings, and as soon as the last kid has left the door, I can leave too. Then I'm good. I'm good to go home and be with Tracy and you know, lay on the couch with my cat and you know, read a book or do whatever I want to do that day that's gonna bring me joy.

So it really does take, setting some boundaries I think is super important that nobody talks about. Well, not nobody, there's a book I'm gonna drop really quick. Her name is Jamie Johnson. She's the author of a book called Teach and Still Have Time to Pee. And it is, I mean, just a phenomenal book.

It's an easy read, very quick read, but it's very straightforward to the point of like, why it's important to have these boundaries in place. You know, going to the bathroom is one of the most basic forms of self-care, and taking care of our needs. And it's like when we sit in PDs, that's what they always tell us.

Like, please be sure to take care of your personal needs. If you need the restroom, this is where they're at. That's one of the first things they tell us. But as teachers, we work ourselves so much that we're like, oh, whatever. I can hold it. I can hold it, I can hold it, you know, and all this stuff. Or maybe it's not going to the bathroom, but maybe it's drinking some water.

You know, maybe it's stepping outside for some sunshine, you know, so some teachers work in rooms that don't have windows. So maybe it's just getting outside for a few minutes for some sunlight. So setting boundaries for the things that we need to make sure that we can actually do those things that bring us joy is so, so important.

Jen Rafferty:
It really is. And I'm smiling over here because I actually, I just posted something about peeing. When you're, you know, a teacher and I, I just have to share, these are the kind of comments that people are, have responded, it’s this one person that said, “Even to the point of not drinking water and getting dehydrated and having a kidney stone due to dehydration, just so I don't have to go pee in the middle of the day during school.” I mean, these are actual people's comments about this. Oh. I mean, this is. It, you know, we talk about boundaries from this place, you know, and we're like, you and I are speaking the same language, and we're like, yes.

Boundaries. And the people who are listening, you know, hopefully, are kind of coming to this idea of like, all right, if we're, if you're listening, you're dabbling in, in this work too. But like, you know, that, that comment right there, that's, that's what's real. And I think something that's really important here is that when you create a boundary for yourself, you are actually creating a paradigm shift so somebody else understands that it is possible for them to create boundaries for themselves.

And it is so important that we do this not just for us, but also to change school culture. And how are we showing up for our kids if we're all not going to the bathroom all day?

Elijah Carbajal:
Right, right. If we're dehydrated, we're not getting that water in our system, right? For our brains and all that stuff. We're gonna walk around foggy.

I walk around with a headache when I don't have enough water, personally. So, yeah, I’m in no mood to teach when I have a really super bad headache. So I gotta drink that water. I gotta drink that water, and that means I'm gonna have to go to the bathroom at some point today.

Jen Rafferty:
Great. Because you're human.

Elijah Carbajal:
I'm a human being. Not, sorry, I'm not even sorry.

Jen Rafferty:
No, of course, you're not. No, you're a human being. And that's, and that's the thing, and when we talk about self-care, you know, oftentimes it gets kind of to this indulgence space, but really like at the very bottom of the barrel meaning of self-care is taking care of your basic human needs, like eating, drinking, resting, washing, going to the bathroom, and like these are things that we don't often do collectively as teachers because it's this sense of, well, I need to give this up in order to give more.

But based on everything that we've talked about before, how can you possibly find any joy if you are not able to meet your basic human needs? And so setting those boundaries, and I'm so glad you brought that up, is essential for you and again, to find joy, to create a culture of a place where people just love to be.

Elijah Carbajal:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. In the book I talk about, I put it this way, that we're not robots programming robots. We're humans teaching humans, right? And we have to keep the human connection in there. We have to make sure that connection stays there. Because if we only see students as students, if we only see teachers as teachers and not as a human beings, with a personality and characteristics and likes and dislikes and needs, and, you know, desires and, dreams and all that, what's the point?

We are in charge of teaching. We don't teach grades, we don't teach subjects. We teach students, right? We teach humans. And so yes, what we are teaching is the content, but we're teaching the individual self. So we have to remember to keep that human piece in there, that connection so that we do remember to number one, set our own boundaries, but also number two, I'm gonna respect your boundary.

I'm gonna respect your boundary. I walked into the teacher's room and literally, it was gonna be like a one-minute conversation. It was literally, I just need to ask you a quick question. Thank you. Goodbye. Walked in and I said, Hey, do you have a minute to talk? And she said I don't actually. She said, I, I really don't.

And I said, okay, I'll come back later. Not a big deal. Like if it's not a big deal, you set that boundary of now is not a good time. I'm not gonna overstep that by saying, oh, but it'll take just one minute. No, that's not respecting that person's space. That's not respecting that person's time. So, it's not just setting the boundaries for yourself, but as I see you as a human, and I recognize myself as a human who sets boundaries. I see you as a human who has your own boundaries too, and I need to honor those and respect those as well.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. Namaste.

Elijah Carbajal:
I love it.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes. So how can people learn more about you and get in touch with you? Of course. All of the links, all these things are gonna be in the show notes. But for those of you who are listening, can you share that with us?

Elijah Carbajal:
Yes, of course. Probably the easiest way to find me is on Twitter or Instagram. But I prefer to use Twitter a lot more. But the handle is the same. So I'm gonna drop both of those there. So it's @carbaeli, so @ C A R B A E L I, so that's Instagram and for Twitter, you can find me on either of those platforms.

I have a podcast called the Shut Up and Teach Podcast. It's available on just about every major platform. Just became part of the Teach Better Podcast Network on Wednesday. So if you head over to the Teach Better site and search their podcast network, you'll find it there along with some other great podcasts available.

And so, uh, if you'd like to read the book, it's available on Amazon. It's available on Barnes and Noble and the Edge Match website. If your school would like to check it out and do like a book study with it you can save some money on like buying in bulk and I'd be happy to do some professional development for anybody who does that as well.

So, yeah, please get in contact with me. I'd love to connect with you.

Jen Rafferty:
Fantastic. And like I said, all of those links will be, the show notes will be super easy for people to get in touch. Elijah, thank you so much for your time and this conversation was so great. I really appreciate it.

Elijah Carbajal:
Thank you Jen. I appreciate you having me on.

Jen Rafferty:
And if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend and write a nice review and we'll see you next time on Take Notes.

Outro:
Incredible right? Together we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible and it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at the Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

Are you tired of the duality of either continuing to drink or being completely sober?

While the road to sobriety is important and valid, there needs to be a different conversation that allows for freedom and responsibility.

In this episode, I’m joined by Holly Krivokapich, a life coach on a mission to lead a sober uprising for high performers.

Together, we explore the concept of "sober-ish" and how it can be a way to approach alcohol with intention and find a balance that serves your life.

We'll also talk about the personal process of getting sober-ish, and the need for educators who may be dealing with addiction to be seen as real people.

Today is all about drinking on purpose and finding a balance that works for you!

So, if you’re eager to learn this sober-ish approach, tune in now and take the first step toward a better relationship with alcohol.

Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Holly:
Holly Krivokapich, a certified coach and founder of Sober·ish Uprising, has done many things over her career. From marketing and communications with the Olympic movement to fundraising for a celebrity foundation to an International TedX speaker coach, her biggest accomplishment is one off the resume. Her sober·ish journey. Holly, a self-proclaimed former heavy drinker starated a sober·ish journey in 2021 and her world has never been the same. She believes you don't have to be an alcoholic to have a drinking problem and that finding freedom from alcohol is the ultimate power move for women. She believes like in all things in life we have to choose a path that works for us and is dedicated to sharing her sober·ish story so that others can see they can create their own path to sober·ish.


Connect with Holly:
Podcast: Sober·ish Uprising
Website: hollykrivo.com
IG: @hollykrivo

TRANSCRIPT: Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching. Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world. Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation.

Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified Emotional Intelligence Practitioner. And I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0 where you become the priority shift, how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook. It's time to take notes.


Jen Rafferty:
Hello everyone and welcome to another incredible episode of Take Notes. I am here today with a fabulous human. This is Holly Krivokapich she is a life coach and is now on this journey and is on fire to lead a sober-ish uprising for high performers out there so they can change their life without a cocktail in their hand. And Holly, I am just so grateful that you are here talking with me on the podcast today.

Holly Krivokapich:
Thank you, Jen. I like have the chills, thank you for the introduction and I would say or talk to you about anything just for fun. So thank you for having me.


Jen Rafferty:
Yes, that's the thing, when I have people on here, it's like the audience gets to listen to this really intimate conversation sometimes with some good friends and we can just really be vulnerable here and share that with other people listening. So everyone listening, get a little sneak peek.

Holly Krivokapich:
I love it. Love it. And I love the work you do. I come from a family of educators and it's so important the work that you and all your community does. So thank you for showing up in this way.

Jen Rafferty:
Thank you. I received that and I'm really excited to have this conversation because this is not something that people talk about I think ever. And maybe like they're in small pockets or even approaching the conversation about being sober. Let's just like what is sober-ish to you? Let's maybe define that first. What does that mean? Holly?


Holly Krivokapich:
That's a great question. Thanks for asking. It is an intentional way of approaching alcohol that works for you, right? And I think for sober-ish it can mean Jen's definition of sober is different than Holly's is different than Brad's. But for me, it's really like being intentional with how alcohol is serving or not serving your life and then making the decision to help it serve you in some way, which could be removing it. I added the ish in there because being sober felt super, super scary to me when I started this. To be a hundred percent sober for the rest of my life felt like me, whatever out like going to the moon, I was like, yeah, I don't think about that. So this sober. So there's some freedom in it, there's some flexibility and there's like accountability and intention. So it's a very long definition. I need to tighten that up a little bit, but that's kind of why sober-ish is like truly, truly so important to me.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure. Well, that makes so much sense to me too because I think whenever we consider something that's like very absolute, it is very difficult to kind of wrap your brain around like, okay, well now it's restrictive and limiting and we know that that really goes against our biology. Like our brains don't like restriction. So it's almost for some people setting ourselves up for, I don't even wanna use the word failure, there's not even a word. How would you describe that? I'm having trouble articulating myself with this.

Holly Krivokapich:
Yeah, no, I think you kind of touched on that. You know, failure. I know and we probably are very similar. Like there's no failure, right? We're experimenting, it's data, we're trying, right? You know, there are very few things in our life that, I mean, love is absolute like our, you know, but even our partners aren't always absolute right? And so I think to like jump into something that you're not even sure if you like, it feels very scary, right? Because like to cut off, you know, somebody was like, I heard this, it was an author, she has a book Euphoria, I need to uh, I can send that to you. But it was like you've got a date being sober before you know if you wanna marry being sober, right? So it's like that piece of trying to be gluten-free or trying to work out a little or you go on dates with your partner, right? It's that piece. So when it is so absolute, it's just too far to get there. It's just too much. And it's like anything, we don't go from sitting on the couch running a 5K the next day. We just don't like we think we can, but we rarely work. So I think it's that baby step and that like I'm gonna try this out and see how it serves my life and then go from there.

Jen Rafferty:
Right, to me, I do equate, it's like dieting. I mean I've tried the vegan thing, I've tried the dairy-free thing, I've tried the gluten-free thing and I eat all of those things now. And I do just wanna put a caveat in here because, for those people who are listening who either have been on a sober journey that is sober, not sober ish, um, or who know people who have, I wanna just validate that experience too and just make it very clear that like this is a different conversation. We are not talking about the sober journey. We are talking about a sober-ish journey. And I just wanna make that clear moving forward that your experience is completely valid and we all support you in whatever you are doing for your life too.
Holly Krivokapich:
Thank you for that. Yes. So important, right? I mean there's people out there that, you know, my brother's been sober almost two years completely sober. And so I have this great admiration and so thank you for pointing out cause it is really important that this is not about that space. There are millions of people in that space and amazing leaders in that space. And like that's, I'm so glad, grateful for that. This is just a different space of exploration.
Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And that's I think a really important space because when people look at other folks who are on that sober journey, then it becomes very dichotomous where it's either I either do that or I am doing whatever I'm doing right now. And I think why this conversation in this space is important is because there is an in-between and we can kind of explore that and maybe make some more conscious decisions about what that looks like for us. You know what I mean?
Holly Krivokapich:
Absolutely. And that's why really cuz I didn't see that out there, right? I saw either you continue to do what you're doing, I'm not a parent by, you know, I'm childfree by choice, but like it's mommy wine culture, it's girls' nights out, it's booze, booze, booze. Or it's like completely sober and you're going to AA meetings. I didn't see anything that was like, well what if I don't want that lifestyle, but what if I don't know if I'm that like where does that look or where is that
Jen Rafferty:
Right. And so yeah, let's talk about that because especially as teachers, at least for me in my experience, I'm gonna talk about teacher experience for a minute, but it's really just every, it's everywhere because you know, it's payday Fridays, everyone would go meet at the bar, right? Or it was the baby showers or the office parties or there's always like you said, the mom wine things, the pain and sips. You know, all of these things kind of revolve around alcohol. I live close to the Finger Lakes in New York, so it's wine country around here too. And it's just everywhere for me. Especially recently cuz I've been kind of sober-ish curious.

Holly Krivokapich:
Love it, love it.
Jen Rafferty:
I've found that it is very difficult being in these social situations saying no thank you to a drink as a full-grown adult. And then getting pushback of like, well come on Jen, like let's you know, what do you mean? No. And it's like I said no that should be enough. We're not in high school anymore. So what does that look like for you and how do you kind of coach people through moments like that?



Holly Krivokapich:
You know and I think it ties into any decision that we make that isn't to mainstream culture, right? Like they get really uncomfortable. We've talked about this, I'm child-free by choice. It can really trigger people, right? It really bothers them that I chose not to have kids and sometimes it really bothers me. I'm not choosing to drink. And so I think going back to that point of like that's about them. That has zero to do with my choice. But that also starts, you know, how do you coach people? Like you have to have an inner knowing and inner intention of like, I'm not drinking, and “No thank you” is a complete answer. Right? But it can be hard, especially if your community is drinking if that's part of your culture. Cause that's how wine was. I don't remember going to social activities and not either thinking about what I was gonna take to drink.
Having a drink like that was embedded in almost every single thing I did up to about a year and a half ago. But for me, it's crystal clear why is this important to me. Right? Why is it you know, for gin when you go into a social setting, I don't wanna have a drink. Why not? Cause I wanna feel better tomorrow cause I wanna be totally present because it feels really good cause I made a commitment to myself. It's so important to have those and then you're just able to say no thank you. And I always, and I do this with my child-free stuff, it's like come back with curiosity. Why aren't you having a drink? I just don't want to like why is it important for you that I have a drink. It can be a little scary, right? But kind of turn it back like why, you know, it does take, it does take some confidence, it does take some experience. But I've always found that's a great way to have that conversation of like yeah I'm just not like what's intriguing to you that I'm not having a drink? Or why is it important to you that I don't have a drink?
Jen Rafferty:
That's so powerful because of what you're doing there. And I felt that fully in my body when you said this cuz I can think back on so many instances where I could have just asked that question if I knew that that was a question that was available to me and then it would've either shut it down or really like you said, had a beautiful engagement with this other person and a conversation of like, well well why does it matter to you?
Holly Krivokapich:
You can drink all you want. I'm not taking your drinks away. I just don't want one.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And I won't count how many you have either. You know, friends who count don't count. That is also me, right?
Holly Krivokapich:
I'm Brighton that, that's awesome. I love that Friends who count don't count. That's great.
Jen Rafferty:
Well, I have to give credit to that to Diana cuz that's hers.

Holly Krivokapich:
Well, then I'll be like from Jen, from Diana, I'm using that. That's great. I love that. Yeah.
Jen Rafferty:
We need proper citations here.
Holly Krivokapich:
Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. I think that that's a beautiful way to explore this and then allow that other person to explore if they want to.

Holly Krivokapich:
And I mean, you know, it's okay to say no thank you and change the conversation, right? If you're at a point you're really not comfortable with, not comfortable, you're not super confident and knowing, right? Yeah. I'm just not drinking right now. No, thank you. So how was your day? How's your kid doing? You know something because we don't owe anybody anything which we forget as humans, myself included.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. We sure do. So can you share a little bit about how you got to this place of even wanting to explore this sober-ish space?

Holly Krivokapich:
So you know, as I mentioned, like I would have a drink at lunch. I loved making dinner on Sunday afternoons and drinking wine. It was happy hours, it was dinners. I mean I don't consider myself an alcoholic. I don't think I had a raging problem. I would get up, I would work out, I would go to work everything right? But like I always knew it wasn't right. I always knew I'd deserve better but I had a really hard time. I mean I can't tell you how many times it was Sunday night or I'm not drinking until the weekend and then a Thursday happy hour would pop up, right? Or Katie would come home with, that's my wife with a bottle of wine. I'm like gosh sure what the heck? It's Wednesday, I'll have one and then it's two. And it was uh, always letting myself down too, right?
Which we don't think about. It's not just the physicalness of the booze, it's the waking up at two in the morning being like I did it again. Why can't you keep it to yourself? You can't do anything right. Like the self-loathing I would feel was awful. And so it was September, I think it was like September 12th we were in a beautiful little place around top Texas for a girls' trip. And it was so interesting cause I'd still been thinking okay, I'm gonna quit drinking at least for a week, right? And so we were in its beautiful place. We were having like a rose at the pool, we had wine at night, we were gen tonics, we had this little bar, it's like a town round tops like 50 people town. It's just precious. And I remember sitting there and there was like four or five of us girls and we had met this group of guys out there and we were all having drinks like on the patio.
And I remember it was almost like I was sitting there and it was like 12:30 and I hadn't done anything dumb. I hadn't said anything stupid like it wasn't outta control. And I just remember like this moment being like you can't keep on doing this. And it was so interesting cuz nothing happened and it was like everything went around me silent and I was like, this just can't be this way, right? Because I found I wasn't engaged. So I woke up that next morning and drove home, it was like an hour and a half trip, and like probably honestly that afternoon probably still buzzed, right? I probably drank so much. I probably still had some type of alcohol. So I don't even count that as my first sober day cuz I was still filling that. And then that next day I was like, you know what?
Which is so funny. So we were going to Napa, I was gonna do a speaking engagement in Napa like around Thanksgiving. So I was like okay I'm not gonna drink until we go to Napa. Which I love it. It's just kind of me in a nutshell, right? I'm not going till we go to Napa. And then so that was what like 60-ish days and it started filling good cuz you know it takes alcohol I think a week to get outta your system, right? And so you start to fill it and then Napa got canceled and so I was like okay, I'll just continue. And then I was just like, I can't go back. I don't know what it looks like but I know that I can't go back to what I was doing. I have seen too much. I know too much.
And so my first glass of wine I think was like on Christmas day I had a glass of wine and woke up with no judgment, no loathing. I felt fine cause I had water and then I just kind of continued. I was like I'm gonna give it a year. I tracked it, I wish I had like this is my current calendar with one my mom gives me. I have my little calendar that I like to track my days and my drinks and I had like 32 drinks in a year, which was incredible for me. We moved, I got a new job, both my grandmas passed away, and my dad passed away. So there was a ton of stuff during that time and I was still able to not have alcohol be a good point in my life. So very long how that got started. But that's, you know, and then that year, and I was like oh I'm gonna keep on doing this. This is great. Like I don't want to drink.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that. You know, and I know that there are people who are listening right now who can resonate with so many of the things that you just said. And I think the thing that I've gleaned most that I just wanna underscore is that it's this journey so personal that like I think you said at the beginning too is your journey in whatever this looks like is going to be different than mine and the next person's if we decide to do it. And it doesn't necessarily have to be for eternity. It could be for however long you'd like. And I think one of the most important pieces of this is that self-talk too, right? That's kind of, cuz it's not even really about the alcohol, it's like almost the drinking is the catalyst for the self-talk. Can you talk more about that? Because having those voices in your head feels like shits and we don't wanna feel that way.

Holly Krivokapich:
Oh, new Taylor Swift fan, not a Taylor Swift. I'm like the newer version like Hi I'm the problem, it's me, right? You're like, oh I'm not, this is nobody's making me do this and that self-talk, right? Because one, it's you don't fit. My confidence has soared since I quit drinking consistently. So that piece of, and just knowing of like I think I posted it's the best self-growth work I've ever done in my whole life and probably ever will do that self-talk, right? Cause it's like the physical piece but it's like for me it was continuously letting myself down and not honoring what was important to me. That was like if I had to boil it down knowing, you know, Sunday I'm not gonna drink Tuesday night I have a glass of wine, maybe I feel fine but still wake it up and be like you said you weren't gonna do that.
Like why do you keep on not honoring what you say is important, right? And then why do you do that? You also did it in this area of your aspect or this area of your relationship and like why do you do that? And then you wake up and you hadn't slept well and you're just like, well cuz you can't do that And then you're just, you don't have a good workout and you're tired. Well, it's cuz you drink and like why are you like that? And then it is just like the whole day, right? Oftentimes end of the day, what do we do? We wanna medicate hard days. And so we're like well maybe if I had glass of wine it'll help. And it first split second it does and then it starts the shit all over again.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. So I wanna talk about that too because that is something that we never talk about as educators is that self-medication and whether it's food, whether it's booze, whether it's video games, whether it's sex, whether it's some other vice that we have, it's whether it's pot, whatever it is, we don't talk about it because, and I'm gonna, we're gonna be really transparent here. Educators are put up on this pedestal of just moral superiority. And what that does is it takes away our humanness and it doesn't allow us to talk about the things that are in the shadows sometimes because we are out of fear to be knocked off of the pedestal. Not just to step down the pedestal. Cuz I think that if you really were to ask someone, they don't wanna be up there in the first place. But we're talking even just like scrolling on Instagram and seeing a picture of a teacher having a drink at a bar on their day off that is scandalous in some places. And so having this kind of conversation about self-medicating is very taboo and I'm really, really glad that we're touching on it because we need to bring it to light in order to humanize this a little bit. So let's talk about self-medicating a little bit.

Holly Krivokapich:
I have a question for you. You had mentioned which would make total sense, right? Cause we think, you know, it's like my mom was a teacher and people started outta the classroom and they're like, “Oh wait, you go to Walmart.” It's always so cute, right? They're like you're a human. So you know, you talked about like a teacher on a pedestal and they're out drinking, they can get like knocked off. So do you feel and the clients you've worked with, the women you've served, that they're, that adds some like hidden tendency like are the shame of drinking, hiding their drinking and it's gonna be for other people too, but I'm curious.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, sure. So I work with everyone, not just women. And this is pretty universal. And so I think the answer to that is yes. The answer to that is, generally I'm gonna be very general. But I have experienced that too. And it wasn't until COVID when everyone's life was a hot mess. You know what I mean? We're all screwed. Everyone saw the mess. I was then comfortable to share that part of myself because I was taught this in college both explicitly and implicitly we are brought up with this idea of what our teachers do or don't do and their private lives. We think they live at school, right? They don't exist outside the poor world. Which by the way is very developmentally appropriate. Like our kids don't realize that because you don't exist outside of that. So of course they're going to be like, “Wait a second, you go food shopping?”
That's like a normal developmental thing, right? But then at the same time, I would consider constantly what I would wear when I would go out into my community and who I was with my behaviors. If I like wanted to like go have a good time and let my hair down, I wouldn't hang in the place where I lived because that was also the same community where I worked. And a lot of those fears dictated the choices that I made in my life about being authentically me. And so because I think of a lot of this hiding, I think it accentuates some of this need to then almost like a rebel.

Holly Krivokapich:
Ooh totally.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. Act out in a way. And I'm like act out in quotes, right? Because like for adults, this isn't like acting out isn't like a thing but that's a lot of times what the going for me it was like ice cream a lot of the time it was like well this is my thing that I get to have for me because I've been so stifled this whole week. You know what I mean? So that was a very long answer to your question but that's kinda what this is coming from.

Holly Krivokapich:
There's so much depth in that question though, right? Like educators do feel this need to be perfect and not to be outside and you know have parents see them if somebody's not trustworthy for their kids, right? And so this pressure and so it makes sense sometimes whether it's like you said can be food, it can be drugs, it could be alcohol, whatever that looks like. There's some like well if I have to be perfect here, I'm not gonna be perfect here, and or like that's gonna be my medication. And some like it's probably even inadvertently a little bit of shame, right? Like I have to hide this piece and then that doesn't feel good to be like drinking in private or like hide like none of that feels good but it makes total sense that that's where what culture and society have put on educators the pressure.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. So I think there's a different flavor of that for many of us. And you know, those of us who are paying attention to the news too. I mean acting a certain way booze or otherwise can have serious consequences. So I think coming back to what it means to like be out and be social and have booze a part of that and have alcohol being a part of that, there's a lot of layers to all of that.

Holly Krivokapich:
Yeah, it's complicated. Which is why I think it's so important. Like we're talking about, it's like you have to figure out what works for you but like really be honest with yourself is the what because my brother and he's great, he's been sober like two-ish years and it's really been such a good support system and I was like I don't know, should I quit drinking? I don't know. Like I feel like all that crap, right? And he was like holy people who don't have a problem don't think they have or what always get this wrong. But like if you're questioning if you have a problem, you probably do. Cuz there are people that don't care that they're like okay I have a glass of wine every three months and it's like not a thing. Like they never start to think do they have a problem? So he's like the fact that it comes up. So that's where the sober piece comes in. It's like if you don't feel like you do like do your thing, whatever, that's great. But if you have that knowledge that you're like this doesn't feel right, there's something not aligned, then that's that space to say okay well what does this look like?
Jen Rafferty:
So I wanna talk about that and stay there for a little bit about that alignment because that's something that obviously I talk about a lot. I know you talk about a lot and this is really about creating a life where everything you do is in alignment with who you actually want to be. You know, in listening to your story and hearing you say things like, I wasn't feeling well, I was having this really terrible self-talk. That doesn't seem aligned with the Holly that I know you are right now and you want to be in the future. So how does that play a role for you in making decisions around this?
Holly Krivokapich:
Ooh, Thank you for that. And that's a great question. A hundred percent plays in right? Because I'm sitting there thinking I wanna do all these big things, I have these big dreams and I'm continuously doing something that I know is holding me back from that like every time. Like I know that, right? And so, it is totally aligned with where I'm going forward, right? Of saying five old women who believe my energy matters, my physicality matters. Like that is my number one priority in everything I do is to keep my energetic frequency high, right? Whether that's sleep, working out, nutrition, meditation, whatever pleasure we learned at Tracy, let's uh, for the powerhouse, whatever that looks like.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, we're gonna put a pin in that one.

Holly Krivokapich:
Yeah. That but like I can't be a woman who wants all these things and then does this like those are not aligned. So that for me is huge to know, hey, if you're somebody who wants to go out and coach to start companies, to travel a world to do all these big things like booze can't be the thing that holds you back. It just can't be. There are other things that are gonna hold you back, right? There are other obstacles. You're gonna try things that are gonna fail. You're gonna like not get what you want. You know all those things. But like you can't purposely put something in that's not gonna add to your life. I don’t know if that answers your question.
Jen Rafferty:
Oh, absolutely it does cuz it's self-sabotage.
Holly Krivokapich:
A thousand percent and it was just this feeling of like what are you doing? And I think what's important to really say is like on the outside, yeah maybe some people were like, no I don't know that anybody would be like, oh she has a problem, right? Or that affects her, right? So it's still get up, but it was like I felt like I had a hundred-pound backpack and I was dehydrated. It was all fuzzy and I was still going but it was just hard.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And if you're walking up Mount Everest, you wanna make it as easy as possible.

Holly Krivokapich:
Totally. You're just like, oh and I don't need this at all. It's like I'm taking Mount Everest with like my Atari, right? You're like that's not even a thing <laugh>, right? Like that I don't need that, I don't need that. Like I don't need all this stuff. And then, oh cool, now I get to go and it feels a lot better.
Jen Rafferty:
Yes. Even just you saying that and thinking about that release of just letting things go and I know you and I just got back from this incredible retreat where we did this beautiful exercise of letting things go and how much lighter you feel afterward and really getting rid of that self-sabotage is just so necessary to continue to move forward at a pace that you want. I mean that's the thing, you know, whether it's building new companies or speaking on big stages or showing up for your students or being present with your own children or your partner or being able to like let go and really have these intimate moments with your friends. I mean this is something that you have a choice about and if booze is a part of that and it's allowing you to do the things you wanna do, awesome. And if it's not then that's a place where you get to make a choice. So my question now to you is what is the option then instead of bringing on the shitty committee every time you fall off the horse, how do you work around that negative self-talk when you do something that you don't feel really proud of?

Holly Krivokapich:
Such a good question. It comes with a lot of practice, right? Like I'm still not great at it. Sometimes I still can beat myself up like, oh why'd you do that? But I think that's why it's important to like to start smaller, right? Start those small goals knowing you have the rest of them, there's a lot of time when this one little blip on the radar isn't going most things. Yes, there are life-defining moments, absolutely, but like most decisions where you do, you're like dang it, I said I was gonna have two drinks. Okay, what did I learn from that? Because it's so funny that year long that I did that. There was one day where I drank like I had two old fashioned cause one was good so two is gonna be better, right? But it was also a really emotional time. Like it was like I just got back from the first powerhouse my dad had passed away.
So I think I was really tired, I was emotionally drained. So I was sitting there with Katie and that was the only time because I woke up feeling terrible and I don't know what else. So it was like, okay well what did you learn? Okay, well one's really all I need especially liquor, right? And I need to hydrate and maybe like not do it when I'm really emotional so I like taking what I learn and then taking that with me. And we talked about this, but just really being kind to yourself, right? Like you are trying, look at how much you've done. You've gone a hundred days and had two drinks. Like you've never done that before and since you were probably 19 when you got your fake id, right?
Jen Rafferty:
I was 16 actually Holly.

Holly Krivokapich:
16. I love it, I love it. But it's like you start and look, you're like you've been drinking since you were 19 probably. And that's, I'm 42 started this when I was like 41. Like okay, let's like, like look at the whole picture and like what did you learn? What can you take forward? And I do think when you have a little bit more clarity and you don't have this like an underlying current of like anxiety in it, which I didn't think I had a ton of anxiety until I quit drinking. I was like, oh that added a little bit of that there. Right? I wouldn't call myself an anxious person. So it's very long-winded. I feel like I'm very long-winded.
Jen Rafferty:
You're being thorough and I appreciate it and, I will say I also appreciate your very specific question because a lot of times we say you come at this with curiosity, like drop the judgment, like come at this curiosity but we don't always know what question to ask. And so this beautiful question of like what did I learn from this is a perfect question to ask because then it immediately gets rid of that judgment and you can really start to uncover, okay well what are the important pieces of information here? And then it becomes data instead of shame and guilt and added anxiety and stress which got you there in the first place. So I thank you for offering that question because that's something that's really important. I do also have to ask one last thing before we kind of wrap up with the last question for the podcast. But when I go to a bar I don't wanna drink, I'm not a soda drinker and I don't wanna be the one drinking water with lemon. What do you drink?
Jen Rafferty:
Do you like mocktails?
Jen Rafferty:
Well, that's what I'm saying, like I don't even know what that, like what is even a mocktail like I don't even know what to ask for and like I don't wanna, I'm still like at the point I like it's funny I get to the bar and I don't know what to order and I feel like again like I'm 16 of my fake ID being like, um, I think I heard a gin and tonic is something people drink. Maybe I'll order that. Like I don't even know what to say.

Holly Krivokapich:
I love it. No, I'm so glad you asked this question cuz that's something I realized for me, if I'm going to a setting, I try and get my drink before anybody can offer me a drink. Especially if you're not filling a place where you're really confident, like I will like go make myself I love like a grapefruit and soda cuz it, it's seriously in a cocktail and I always ask can you make me a mocktail? Can I have a grapefruit and soda? Right? And so they'll put it in a cocktail glass which does totally add to the experience, right? I'll get a glass, you know, can I have sparkling water in a wine glass? A lot of places that are really cool are starting to do mocktails, right? So it's like, hey can I have a cranberry and soda? Like if you don't like soda, that can be a little hard.
Like I don't like regular soda but just like go and just like experiment. Hey, do you have any type of mocktails? What? What have you made? Okay, I can do this. Sure I'll try it, right? But I always go to like grapefruit and soda cause it's like a Paloma I think, but Paloma has tequila. This doesn't. But that's kind of like my go-to if there's not anything cuz it does and it feels a little refreshing. It is sometimes funny cause they bring it up as a juice and I'm like, I'm a grown woman. Am I drinking? I guess technically.
Jen Rafferty:
We're drinking juice, but that's okay, right? I think maybe finding the levity in that is kind of fun too. So I guess if you are listening right now and you have a favorite mocktail, please let me know at jen@empoweredeeducator.com. Shoot me an email with your favorite mocktail. I am mocktail curious, I would like to know more.

Holly Krivokapich:
And there are a ton of great alcohol-free wines out there. There are a ton of like-hand wines. Like I had a rose the other day that was delicious. In fact, there is an alcohol-free spirit store here in Haston. I think it's the only one and like, has beer, wine, CBD, and stuff. And it's super fun. And so you can get the alcohol-free tequila and make your own mocktails. There are lots of great options.
Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, I'm curious to explore and I really enjoy this space and I'm really so glad that you've kind of, I've watched you, you know, and witnessed you kind of move through the last year and a half or so, and now that, that you're here and it's very, very cool to be having this conversation with you now and um, it's an important conversation to have, especially for the audience who's listening today. So thank you for that. And before we go, I do have to ask one last question, which I ask for everybody and I'm curious to know how you answer this because it's from your perspective and our conversation, you know, thinking about our educators and regarding this conversation we just had, what is your dream for the future of, of how teachers and educators exist in this space?

Holly Krivokapich:
That's such a good question. I think educators and first responders above anything are the people that are like making this world go round. And I think just knowing that this is what's coming to me and I feel like it comes across like kind of constant. Like they deserve better than treating alcohol as a pill, as a relief, right? That they deserve to feel good in their bodies that they deserve. And you know, really kind of questioning as you said, maybe it doesn't affect just like that's great, this may not be for you, but is there a place that you find yourself doing that? You deserve to seek other ways of support, connection, freedom, of relief. And just knowing that like we've been sold a bill of goods that like alcohol helps everything that it makes us social, that is, he cares our anxiety, that it helps us feel better. Like all these things. And so I think for me it's just the realization or the stepping into the thing that they deserve better. I deserved better in my journey. Right? And they can define it however they want to.
Jen Rafferty:
Yes, I love that. And I'm gonna add one piece to it and be supported in the journey for that too, which I think starts in having these beautiful moments like we've had today having this conversation. So thank you so much Holly for your time and your talents. It's always such a joy. I'm glad this was an excuse to chat and get together and this will be not the last time we do this for sure.

Holly Krivokapich:
No, yeah, this is great. And like I said, thank you for all you. I know that the people you serve in your listeners are under an overwhelming amount of stress and pressure and I know that the work you do is so important and that you're helping them know they deserve whatever it is they want in this world. And I love that you bring people in that help reaffirm your message.
Jen Rafferty:
Thank you. I fully received that. Holly, how can they get in touch with you?

Holly Krivokapich:
Yes, my website is hollykrivo.com. H-O-L-L-Y-K-R-I-V-O.com. And I'm also on Instagram and releasing. Here I am working on reinvigorating my podcast. I did a child-free podcast into the sober uprising where we continue to have more of these conversations. So that will be upcoming soon.
Jen Rafferty:
Amazing. And all those links will be in the show notes. And if you like today's episode, make sure you subscribe and share it with a friend, and we will see you next time on Take Notes.

Incredible right? Together we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible and it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

Feeling overwhelmed and stressed out as a teacher? Want to reignite your passion for teaching and make it a truly rewarding experience? You've come to the right place!

In this episode, I chat with Brian Mendler, an educator who specializes in helping teachers connect with hard-to-reach kids. We dive into his transition from being a teacher to supporting other educators, and explore the gap between teacher training and real-world classroom experiences.

Brian underlines the importance of remembering why we become teachers and shifting our focus towards teaching kids, not just content. He also emphasizes the value of building relationships with students and concentrating on self-improvement.

Together, we tackle the challenges of reaching and communicating with students who have unique needs and face different obstacles. Brian shares his personal journey of living with ADHD and struggling with reading, which made school a tough environment for him. He stresses the need to understand and empathize with struggling students, and to find ways to uplift them instead of making them feel defeated.

So, if you're eager to make a lasting impact on your students' lives, this episode is packed with valuable insights and motivation.

Here’s to transforming your teaching approach and embracing a more joyful and rewarding path!

Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
 Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Brian:
Plagued by severe undiagnosed ADHD and reading difficulties, I began disrupting class in 4th grade. I believed my peers would laugh at me for being “dumb” so I made sure they laughed at me for being “bad” instead. I was defiant, disruptive, and relatively unmotivated. By sixth grade, my academic skills were so below grade level that I was pulled/kicked out of school.
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During my senior year, I started gambling. The next five years were a cycle of lying, cheating, and stealing to feed my addiction. In 2001 I entered recovery. I am now clean 21 years.
​
Today I am a certified teacher, presenter, and international motivational keynote speaker for educators. I have co/authored seven books, including the best seller, That One Kid, 2nd Edition, Tips for Teachers, Power Struggles, Turning Tough Parents into Strong Partners, and Watch Your Mouth.
​
I live with my wife, who is a world renowned artist (www.reneemendlerart.com), three kids, and two pets.
​
I look forward to seeing you at a workshop or conference in the future!


Connect with Brian:
https://www.brianmendler.com/
https://www.instagram.com/brianmendler/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-brian-mendler-show/id1465332247

TRANSCRIPT: Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching. Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world. Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away, but it absolutely needs transformation.

Welcome to the Take Notes podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified Emotional Intelligence Practitioner. And I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids, we need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy and fulfillment. This is Education 2.0 where you become the priority shift, how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee and grab your notebook. It's time to take notes.

Jen Rafferty:
Welcome Brian to Take Notes.

Brian Mendler:
Thank You.

Jen Rafferty:
So I'd love to know from you, I mean I obviously have seen you talk before, I've read your things and I wanna know what really was the transition for you when you were like, okay, I need to give this message to educators because this is too important.

Brian Mendler:
I never did. I've never done that. I've never in my career consciously said I want to go give this message to educators. It's always been the opposite. Its educators have come to me asking for the message and I, and I just wanna be clear about that. Everyone thinks like I'm a speaker, I'm a presenter, I'm just a person who helps teachers with hard-to-reach kids. And so the way it all started for me, I was teaching in my little small self-contained class in Rochester, New York and I loved it. That was one of the first times in my life when I felt like I was good at something when I got in front of those kids. And I just loved it like I was a different breed in the classroom. I liked it when a kid cussed me out or said something and for me, it was a challenge. For me, it was always can I get this kid from here to here? And like I always saw that as the thing I was there to do, right? And so I was doing that and I was happy doing that. I liked doing that.

And then in upstate New York where we both are from, you live there, I'm from there, there's an organization called BOCES and they basically came to me one day and they said, “Would you like to teach a one-hour workshop after school on what you're doing that's working with the kids in your class? Because whatever you're doing in there is going well.” And basically what it was was I always had self-contained special ed and they were just happy. They weren't hearing from my kids. That was really what it was. They were just happy it was quiet down there and whatever else was going on.

And so I said, “No.” I said, “I will not like to do that.” And they said, “Why?” And I said, “Because I have no idea what I'm doing.” I don't know what I'm doing. I just do it Like it's one thing to play basketball. It's the only thing to teach someone how to play basketball, right? And they're two very different skills. So I said No, but it planted a seed in my head. And I was like, you know what? I don't know. That sounds kind of interesting. And I went back to my room and from that moment on for like the next two months, everything that happened in my room, I looked at through the lens of like what did the kid just do? What just happened? And if I had to, how did we handle that and how do I explain that to someone else, right?

And it was just a fun way to teach. I was doing it more like it was just for me. I had again, ADHD, I have to keep things fresh and interesting. So right, you get into self-contained, you're often with the same kids all day or it's like a family, like it's cool, right? You love each other but it's also a lot, right? You're with 'em all the time. And so it was like this fresh way for me to approach a scenario was, let me just look at it through the lens of how do I explain this to someone? Okay, I just walked away and the kid mumbled under his breath and I kept walking. What could we, let's call that second-to-last word like you're a second-to-last word person instead of a last-word person. And sort of these one-liners kind of came up.

Anyway, long story short, I went back to that lady like probably two months later and I said, “I would like to try that thing you were talking about.” And it was after school was one hour and it was, you don't get paid and you don't pay to go. So it's all free, which is cool and it's a great place to kind of get your feet wet. And I did the one hour and there were two things that I knew really quick. Thing number one was that there was a need cuz I could tell people were just like, I finished and people were still there like asking questions. They had their hand up and they wanted to know like what are these strategies? I can't really just walk away from a kid and you don't have to go back and argue with 'em, right? You don't have to like you can choose that or you can choose not to.

And like it was kind of like just a foreign way of looking at things. And so I knew that there was a need. And the other thing I knew, and this is gonna sound cocky but I'm not saying it in that way, is I knew I was good at it. And the only reason I knew I was good at it was because I knew until that point in my life that I wasn't good at most things. I struggled in school most of my life and so I wasn't good when you're not good for a long time, all of a sudden when you got something, you're good at it, you're like “Whoa, like this feels nice, right?” So that was the two things that happened. And then, so it's not exactly true what I said where I didn't seek it. So I did early on, right? So from right then I started applying to speak at conferences cuz back when I started that was the only way to get your message out.

You had to go to a conference and have them submit a proposal and then they would basically accept you or not accept you, right to a conference. And I kept applying and applying, applying and I got rejected from most of 'em. And then I got a lucky break. I got accepted at one and it was a big one. And the one that I got accepted, I did the same presentation that I did for 15 people the first time in New York. I did it for 750 people for the second time at this conference. And I got completely bombarded when I finished. I wasn't prepared for it from all directions. I had people coming up to me saying, can you come to help our teachers? Can you come to help our teachers? Please come help our teachers. And that's how my career has gone from that moment forward. I've never saw a school and said, can I come work with your staff?

It's always been I go to this place, they see me, people really like it, then somebody leaves and becomes an administrator somewhere else and they're like, oh we gotta bring 'em to this school. And that's just sort of how my whole career has gone in this profession. But it was never, I was just a teacher and that's all I ever wanted to be. I loved being there. I truly did. And I was the happiest in my life I had ever been when I was just full-time in the classroom with those self-contained special ed kids. That was my thing. So that's kind of how my journey became the way it is.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. So that's really telling though, right? I mean for people to look at you and say, “Wow, what are you doing that we're not doing?” I have a feeling for what I think the disconnect is, but I wanna know from you what is the disconnect from where teachers are, how they have their experience, their education like what's actually going on in the classroom, where's the gap? Why is there a gap?


Brian Mendler:
So I think the foundation of the gap starts with- Why are you in this profession? What did you go into this for? Like why are you here in the first place? What brought you here as an educator? And like for me personally, I never wanted to be an educator. I didn't go into teaching until a little later in my life. It wasn't something that I sought out for. I went to college for communications. I worked for a very short amount of time in Binghamton. I don't even know if you know this, but I was right near you at Binghamton. I worked at W B N G T V, the TV station, which is the CBS affiliate in Binghamton. I worked there for a year right out of college. I wanted to be a sportscaster. That's what I always wanted to be. But I was lost in my light, I was lost.

You've been in my presentation. I talk about being then I'm in addiction recovery and I had just gotten which we can get into or not it's, it's up to you. But I had just gotten into an addiction recovery at the time and I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And my mother, my mother was a teacher for 27 years, an administrator for 10. So she was in education for 37 years and she kept getting in my ear saying “You should be a teacher, you should be a teacher”. And I kept saying, I don't wanna be a teacher. I don't, I don't like school, I never like school, I don't wanna be a teacher. And my mother would finally one day looked at me and she goes, I don't think you should be a teacher. And I was like, what? Why not? Court oppositional me, right?

She's telling me that I shouldn't be now. I'm like, why not? All right? And she's like, well, she's like, I don't know if you have the patience. Like she started saying, and I was like, what are you talking about? And I, it got me looking at it, right? So I started looking and I realized, whoa, like there's part of this job you can do where you can just work with kids that are troubled kids. Like you're not there to teach ELA or math or science. You're there to teach kids, right? People. And like I never knew that was a thing I right. I always saw teaching as you go in and you teach math or science. And so when I went back from my master's in education, they said, what do you wanna get it? And I said I want to get it in whatever the one I need to work with the worst kids in the school.

That's what I said. And they started laughing, they were like SpecialEd. I'm like, I'll take it. And then I got certified in two other areas as well. And then my first job is pretty funny as well. It was pure nepotism. My mother had a friend who was a principal at a school and she called her friend and this was like mid-year I had finished and she said, my son, it was a self-contained special ed job opening. And she said to her friend, will you interview Brian? Like my son, Brian's coming out of teacher school and he wants to be a teacher and I think he'd be really good at this job. And her friend said No, I didn't know any of this by the way, so I knew none of this. So her friend said No, and, and my mother said Why? And her friend said, cuz we already hired someone.

And my mother said, oh okay. And the friend said, I don't wanna waste their time. So I'm, my mother said, good, even better interview 'em and reject them. It will be good for it. Right? So I didn't know any of this. So the guy says, okay, so he calls me and he asked me one question. Literally, it was the fastest interview I ever had. He said, why should I hire you, right? And my answer was, I just told him the truth. I said, I don't know, probably you shouldn't. And he said, what? I said, well I don't know if I would hire me like I don't really know how to teach. I never really wanted to be a teacher. I never really liked school but I'm here for one reason. And he said What? And I said I wanna teach the kids that nobody else wants to teach.

So if you have any kids at your school, I don't know if you do or not because I really didn't know. Like I was naive. I was like, I just kind of thought maybe there's a job at a school where I could just teach those kids and I wouldn't have to do anything else. I said, I want those ones, the ones that no one else wants. And he looked at me like I had three heads. Like he was just kind of like, what? And then, then he left. Like I left, it was literally like 20 minutes and I left and he called me like two hours later and he is like, we'd like to offer you the job. So I called my mom, right? And I'm like, Mom, I got the job. She's like, what do you mean you got the job? They already hired someone.

But I'm like, what do you mean they hired someone? I don't know what happened but they picked me and then they gave me all those kids and I almost quit. And I always tell first-year teachers, if you don't almost quit during your first year, you're doing something wrong, right? It's so hard and so overwhelming and so exhausting that like there should be points where you're like, what am I doing this? And I don't let that win that understand that's just a moment in time that's gonna pass. And those moments become fewer and fewer as you stay in it longer and longer.

Jen Rafferty:
Oh for sure. I almost left after my first year too. I was like, “Wait a second, I didn't sign up for this, I signed up for this other thing.” But you brought up a really interesting point about why people get into teaching and I didn't really put this together until just now. I wanna just put this out here too for a second. Most people get into teaching because, and this isn't everybody, they were really good at it and they see themselves in the students that they teach. So when you don't see yourself as a student, that's often where it becomes a point of conflict and opposition behavior for not just the student but like for you too and your version of your younger self who was in school. So it's really interesting to hear your story, and I would love for you to actually share your story about what happened when you were in school because I think that's really important. We're looking for mirrors and when we don't see ourselves, that's often when we end up starting conflict. It's not the kids, it's us.

Brian Mendler:
To answer your question from before, which is where's that gap? Like why does that happen? It's, some people, right? You go in a room, a room full of elementary school teachers, and again, I'm generalizing, I wanna be clear about that, but here’s the categories. Elementary, SpecialEd, counselors, psychologists, social workers, and you say the following question to them, ready? “Why'd you go into teaching in the first place?” They all answer the same way, right? Literally, it's the same cuz I like kids, I've always liked kids from the time I was 14, I became a babysitter when I was 16 and became a camp counselor when I was 19, I became a lifeguard like kids kid and their whole world is bit kids, right? And that's their answer. You do that same question to a room full of middle school and high school teachers and no disrespect to any of them because I primarily worked in both, right?

This is just factual. You go around a room full of middle school and high school teachers, the answer changes dramatically. Cuz I like math my whole life I've liked math. I mean, I don't know, I guess I could have been an accountant, but I've loved wars. I'm fascinated by wars. Like man, I've been studying World War II forever. Like that's your answer when you go to middle school, or high school, which is fine because that's what they do, right? Most of their job all day is teaching content. But when you show up every day with your fundamental mindset being I'm here to teach kids, math is just in the way. But if your mindset every day is, no, no, no, I'm here to teach fractions like I am here today because these kids need to learn fractions, then kids like me are in the way. And it's sort of a rhetorical question, right?

To ask yourself as a teacher, right? Understand every teacher in the world removes something from class every single day. I'll say that again. Every single teacher in the world removes something from class every day. The rhetorical question always ask yourself is do I kick out the kid cuz the kid got in the way of my content or do I kick out the content because it's just in the way of these kids? Which one is it? See how special ed teachers, we kick out content all the time. Cuz the truth is we don't really like it anyway. I mean we don't, right? I mean I didn't go into this because I like Shakespeare. I'll put up with Shakespeare, right? I'll do my best at it. I'll try, try to learn it. I'll give you, but it's not why I'm here. Like, so if you took the kid part away of the job from me, I'd be like, I'm out of this profession. I don't even wanna be in it. Right?

But there's some teachers out there, if you took the kid part away, you're like, hey, you no longer have to teach any kid. But good news, nobody, nobody's phone's gonna go off. Nobody's gonna be disrupting your class. Nobody's gonna be talking inappropriately. There's gonna, because there's gonna be nobody there. So you can teach your science all day long. There are some teachers that'd be like, yes. Right? And so that's why, that's why. And it's the fundamental reason you went into it.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And I think you're set up for this when you're in your pre-service programs in college, right? I mean I experienced this also as a new teacher where I felt armed with my pedagogy and my content and I had a beautifully written philosophy that was three pages, right? And then I get into my classroom and I quickly realize I had no idea who my kids were. I had no, I had no clue. And I've gone toe to toe with people. Exactly what is what you just said. You know, I didn't teach music, I taught kids 21st-century skills through music. And if we're not teaching kids then you're in the wrong business. You know, go to the private school but the private music school down the street and you'll go teach music. But here we teach kids and I think you're right that it's ironic but kids get left out of the equation and but we say it, we're like we're doing it for the kids, but are we?


Brian Mendler:
But some people aren't. Look, the good news is I think there's room in the profession for both kinds of people. You just gotta know what kind of person you are. Like, and you gotta be truthful with yourself. Like it's fine if you're a teacher that's like, I'm not here to connect with a kid, I'm not here to build relationships with the kid. I'm here to teach math. I promise you there are schools where you, where you can go have a nice career. There are like my brother, my brother's an example of a kid, right? Who was a super high level kid in school, like top of his class, you know, he is doctor, both kinds. Got his MD and his PhD, right? He's wick and smart. With all due respect, my parents weren't interested in the teacher connecting with him. My parents were interested in you pushing the daylights out of him academically.

And the good news is there is a place for that. There's a place. But just know where you are. Like sometimes we work in the wrong environment. Sometimes you get a teacher who's so into the content, but it's not, it's, it's the kind of school because there are different kinds of schools in the world where they need way more than that. They need way more. That's gotta be the back burner. The front burner has to be a connection, relationships, and getting to know you. There are other schools where you could just go there and teach your math and that's fine. Like just know where you fit in best. And what I love about our profession is I truly believe there's room for everybody, and especially when you get to middle school and high school, it's healthy for those kids that have different kinds of teachers. I'm for that like you're gonna have one teacher who's super strict.

You get one teacher who's super lenient, you get one who lets you wear a hat. There's one who doesn't. I'm all in favor of that because I think that's like the real world, right? Sometimes you go to one state, there's one kind of rule, you go to another state, there's a different kind of rule, right? That's a healthy thing in life. So I'm for that, in that regard. Just know yourself and know where you fit best and try to weave your path as an educator. Weave yourself to the place like, like I sort of did in my first interview, I just want the kids that no one else teaches. I don't know what the job openings are for. I don't really know what you want me to do. I just want this kind of kid. Can you gimme them? Yes. Okay, cool. Okay, what else do I have to do?

Right? But that was the foundation. And when the foundation is what you, that you're there for. When that's the foundation, everything else is tolerable. Not everything else is fun, but everything else is tolerable. You can put up with the meetings, you can put up with the nonsense, you can put up with the paperwork, you can put up with it all better. Why? Because the foundation is still the one, the reason I was here. Those kids that nobody else wants, they keep giving them to me. So that's what they do. So 90% of my day is still, that 10% is annoying, but at least 90% is what I'm here for. But when you don't have either, when you have the constant annoying stuff, right? The parents and the paperwork and the, all the stuff that goes along with our day in the classroom with kids, right? And then you're also not enjoying your foundation then it's a miserable place to be. And that's why you see a lot of people miserable in our profession. I mean that's one of the reasons, there are multiple reasons but that's certainly one of the reasons.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. No, for sure. And it's interesting to hear your story with this interview too because teachers who become teachers because of the way they felt in school, most of them, myself included, are rule followers. And I think that that gets us into trouble because you are not a rule follower.

Brian Mendler:
I am though. I'm a rule follower when the rule makes sense, I stop at red lights. So I'm a person who tests the boundaries. I'm a person who said, okay, you're gonna have a rule how is it affecting your social studies lesson that I'm chewing gum.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah.


Brian Mendler:
Now if you can show me that, if you're like here's a direct correlation between me not being able to see and you're, you're cracking me, you're popping it, you're snapping it, you're blowing bubbles in it, it's getting someone's hair, any of those things. But me sitting there like this nice and quiet in the corner chewing my gum, like that's, that's a, you're gonna stop your lesson to tell me to spit it out just because it's a rule. That's my mindset. I drive on the right-hand side of the road even if there's a traffic jam I drive on the right-hand side of the road. Why? It's a good rule. It's a good rule, right? So when you can look at a rule and you're like make sense, most of us in life make sure we all slow down at a school crossing zone, even the speeders at three o'clock on a weekday. Cuz you're like yeah it makes sense man, there's a lot of kids and even though it's 32-30 now sometimes I go 45 through, but at this time of day makes sense for it to be 30, I'm gonna even go slower. So I think it's important to point that out. But you're right, in general, I have no issue questioning rules, let's say it like that.

Jen Rafferty:
I stand corrected. You are right. And I think that goes to what I, I also say about a lot of what we do in education is tradition-based. And my way of looking at tradition, it's like peer pressure from dead people that like if it's not serving you, then why are we doing it? And so I think that we need more people to question the rules that don't make sense. Not necessarily be rule breakers because you're right, that's different than what I had described before And we need more people to stand up and say those things because I, I think generally they're not and it's causing big problems for our next generation who's moving through.


Brian Mendler:
I like expectations better than rules anyway because I feel like an expectation tells you what to do. A rule tells you what not to do. No hitting, that'd be a rule. I prefer the expectation of keeping your hands and feet to yourself. Notice how like one is giving you advice, which is my job. I'm a teacher, if my job is to be a teacher, then everything that I'm doing should be phrased through the lens of that. Not through the lens of correcting you, not through the lens of punishing you but through the lens of teaching you. Right? So I'm always gonna give you what to do instead of giving you what not to do. A lot of times we do that with hard-to-reach kids. Like we tell 'em to stop talking but we don't give them something to do in its plate or we tell 'em not to get out of their seat. Okay but fine, what can I fidget with? You have something else because I need movement, right? Like so it's one thing to tell 'em, people, what not to do. It's another thing to replace it with something else.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And so let's talk about that for a little bit. You know this idea of kids need different things and when you were a kid you needed different things and you were in a place where that woman was not having it. Can you tell us about that story?

Brian Mendler:
Yeah, so the crux of that story is that basically I had a rough year, I had a rough fourth-grade year. I clashed with my teacher and I had issues. I'm guessing she had issues like we both had issues, my issues were severe ADHD which caused me to struggle with reading, and I'm not dyslexic but I had reading difficulties cuz I couldn't sit still long enough to read. And that was an issue like when you struggle with reading, school becomes a really hard place. Maybe this isn't the best way to say it nowadays, but reading is like a virus. It infiltrates everything and it truly does. Like I remember early on and I liked math like I was good at math and I don't know how old you are but when I was a kid, math was often they would hand you a worksheet with like 60 problems on it all like one after another, after another after another.

And I love those like I remember I would get those and I'd be like, all right, I can do these. And then I remember one day sitting in class and they handed out the math sheets and it was all reading and I was like what the heck is this? Now we gotta read here too. It's literally everywhere. And so if you struggle in that area and that was my struggle. I mean I saved my whole story for my workshop. I'll tell you that anywhere ever other than you gotta see me in person. But yeah, that was, it was a rough year for sure.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, it's important to know where it's perspective because again, we've all had those kids. I didn't see myself in those kinds of kids who struggled with those issues. And so it was difficult for me to figure out not just what their issue was but then how do I reach that kid because I don't even speak the same language. And so what I love about what you do is you provide language for teachers to actually communicate with those kids in a way that makes them feel empowered and not defeated.

Brian Mendler:
You know when you say perspective and it's so true in so many aspects of life, right? It's true in coaching or in sports. I mean I don't know if you ever see like so I was a kid, I was an athlete and I was okay. Like I was never the best. I was again, I was kind of averaging everything and I sat on the bench a lot, I made the team but I didn't really play. It was a lot of things like there was one sport I played a lot and everything else I made the team and I'll play. But I would always be watching the game through the lens of- Is coach gonna get us in? Like are we winning by a lot or are we losing because I just wanna get in. I didn't really care if we won or lost truthfully I just wanted to be a blowout one way or the other. Cause I wanted to get in the game, right?

And so now when I watch like high school sporting events, I always look at it that through that lens, right? If there's a blowout in a game, does the coach get the bench warmers in or no? Right? And typically when you look at who the coach is that dictates whether the bench is the, was the coach a bench warmer? Like is the person who's coach, were they a really good athlete? Yeah. Okay. Benchwarmers you ain't getting in. Why? Cuz the really good athletes never wanted to come out either. So if he's got the perspective of I was the best point guard but I'm gonna keep my starters in cuz I always wanted to stay in, right? But if you were a benchwarmer and now you're a coach, yeah your best players are gonna play and you're gonna try to win but at every turn, you're gonna be looking to get this kid in and get that kid in cuz you know what it feels like and sit at the end of the bench and wanna get in so bad. And so you can quickly tell, I always say I can, I'll tell my wife like if our kid makes a team, they're gonna play and they're not gonna play based on the success of the coach when they were in school. And it's true every time. But it's all about perspective, right? What lens are you looking at the situation through?

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And understanding that it's your job to care enough about that kid who you're not able to communicate with and find a way for you to communicate with them or her in a way that makes them feel empowered and successful in their own right. That's actually your job.

Brian Mendler:
Yeah. Again, right? If you go into this profession cuz you like math, then it, that's not really what you're there for. Like so again, you might do it like if someone tells you you have to or it's a strategy put in front of you but you're not looking for it. That's what I do. What I do when I come into school is move my focus, right? Sometimes you're a teacher and it's not that it's bad. That's the one thing to keep in mind again, right? I'm not saying it's bad that you're here to teach math, that's good. We need those people. Those people are very important for our kids to learn and grow and get better and get smarter. There are two components to being a great teacher, right? You've gotta be great with kids and you've gotta be great with contact. And so what happens is a lot of teachers have one but they don't have the other.

And that's true, in both directions, to be honest, right? I don't consider myself under my definition that I was a great teacher. I think I was an average. I feel like I was great with kids. I wasn't great with Shakespeare, and I struggled with Shakespeare still like it's hard for me. I didn't under, like I would be sitting there with the kid and the teacher would, I'd be the special ed teacher in the room at an inclusion class and the teacher would be explaining, I'd be sitting there secretly to myself, I don't understand what the hell she's talking about right now. Like I, I what? Why can't they just use regular A like English is hard enough for these kids. This is what I would be thinking in my head. Why is it gotta be like this whole other language that they're trying to understand and like just tell 'em what they're saying. Like it, it would be what I would think in my head, right? And but like that's what it was and what are you gonna do? That's life.

Jen Rafferty:
Right. So then of course in that scenario, the kid who doesn't understand starts acting out and then what happens is like the classroom management plans come on out, right? And it needs an update. It needs a base lift, this rebrand of this idea.

Brian Mendler:
How about we just get rid of it.

Jen Rafferty:
Let's do that.

Brian Mendler:
We just get rid of it and we replace it with the word relationship. The reason we don't do that is because one is work for the teacher and the other one isn't the classroom management plan. It's like somebody's hands like getting a lesson plan. Here it is. You don't have to think, just follow these steps and do it. Relationship building takes extra work. It takes going out of my way. It takes going to a sporting event. It takes making that quick phone call home when a kid is suspended to tell him that you miss him and that you're excited that he's coming back tomorrow and like whatever happened in the past is in the past and you're gonna go forward and that that takes actual extra work, right? Some people wanna put that work in and some people don't. But I don't see it as work. I see it as an investment.

I see the definition of the word investment, literal definition is I give something up right now I'm giving something up that I want. I'm holding this thing that I want really bad, right? But I'm gonna give it up. Why? I don't know. Cuz the people that are smarter tell me that if I do it's gotta be way more valuable in a year, in two years, and five years, right? And that's how to look at this like giving up a minute or two of your free time and I know nobody wants to, again, that's why it's an investment. I want every dollar I earn. I got three kids, two dogs, right? Every dollar that comes in could immediately go back out if I wanted to. Yet I still every month amidst all of it, take this much. And I put in an account for each of my kids.

What again, the people that are smarter than me tell me if you just do that every day or every month for like their whole life, from the time they're like born, your mind will be blown at how much you have when they're 18 when they're 20. Okay? Like, so let me just do that. And that's what this is. It's, it's making that commitment every day to just put that one minute in or two minutes, a little bit extra time that you wouldn't normally. And look these kids don't make it easy, right? When a kid just gets done pushing your buttons for 45 minutes or for one hour and a half, do I really wanna go find them when I'm not required to be with 'em and have a little chat with 'em about life and not really? I mean, so again, one of my rules is to reach people no one else reaches. You have to be willing to do things other people aren't willing to do. That's what it takes. And that's true in every aspect of life.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. You're absolutely right cuz this, you know, wherever you go there you are, right? So this isn't just about being in school, this is, these are life skills that, you know, this isn't just about being a good teacher and you can never escape you, right? And I think this goes along with the idea that we have to stop taking everything personally. Like this isn't about you. And that often gets in the way of building those relationships because it's really easy to internalize that kid who's been, you know, misbehaving, goofing off, distracting for 45 minutes and really taking that inside with you and making it mean something about you. It has nothing to do with you.

Brian Mendler:
That's right. And even if it is, does have something to do with you. Which, so it's one of two, right? It's either you know for sure that it has nothing to do with you because there are 50 other things going on in the troubled kids' world or the kid tells you it is about you. No, it's how you talk to me, right? And if that's the case, then either direction, whatever direction it is, your response is the same, apologize either way, right? Whether you did something wrong, whether you didn't do something wrong, or they are mad at you, whether they're taking out on you. Just say to the kid, hell, I'm so sorry. And if you're not really sorry, just say when they're like, well what are you sorry for? I'm sorry for the fact that anyone would ever get as upset in our class as you got.

I just want you to know that when I, and it's true when I make wake up in the morning, it's never my intention for anyone to get this mad. And I don't think it's ever any of my colleagues' intention doesn't make my life better. My, paycheck's the same, my classroom and my day is a lot harder when you get really mad. But my paycheck's the same. So it really doesn't make sense for me to want you to be met. So whatever I did, whatever my colleagues did, whatever any of these kids did that helped caused it on behalf of all of us, I wanna let you know that I'm really, really sorry. I really am by the way, at the same time I'm really not exactly sure what I did. I'm truly not. But I'm sorry for whenever it was that any of us did cool.

Like when you go that route now you've brought a kid down five notches and then you could say to the kid, then you say, by the way, real quick, I was just curious, you don't have to tell me if you don't want, but is there anything you think you might be able to do differently next time? I mean I just told you what I could do differently next time and I gotta watch out for this and I gotta be more careful about your friends being around you and saying stuff in front of them and knowing that they're gonna hear it. And I gotta, right? But what, is there anything like when you get mad, when you get annoyed, when you get frustrated instead of calling me names instead of right screaming in class instead of throwing a fit instead of flipping over a desk, what else is there?

I'm not telling you not to get mad, I'm just saying, what else can you do when you get mad? Because anger's gonna be part of your life forever. Like I don't care how old you are, anger is part of life. It's not about not getting angry. Don't try to control that. Instead, control how you respond when you get angry. That's what you gotta work at.

Everybody's at the same level of getting angry. It's just some people show it and some people don't. And the people that don't show it are the ones that have incredible mental control. Incredible. It's one of the hardest things that there is to do in the whole world, right? Is to be angry and not show your anger in that moment. Like that's why some people are great at poker, right? I mean it's just disability, but it doesn't mean you don't get angry. It's about how you handle that in every scenario. And when you can look at that, that's your focus every time, then you're always working on self-improvement. And that's what really all of it should always be about is just always trying to get a little bit better today than I was yesterday at whatever the thing is that I'm doing.


Jen Rafferty:
Yes, that is what it's all about. I don't even know if we've ever even had a focus on that thing, but that's truly from where I'm standing, that's what matters. Otherwise, what are we doing? What are we doing?

Brian Mendler:
Totally. Well because what we're doing in a lot of schools is we're focusing on the wrong thing, right? And I see it with my own kids, right? So like I have a fifth grader and a third grader and it's, so it's state testing time right here in Florida. And again, it's what is your focal point as the teacher, right? Like, so when there's a test, like when the kids come home, are they all anxious about the test? A lot of kids are, and the reason they are is because we're making this huge deal about the test. What, you know, the test matters and we bring in the band and they're playing for the, and we're bringing in food and we're putting, getting all wearing Marin matching t-shirts and it's like we're making it this huge deal, right? And those soak kids, right? You're making something a big deal they wanna perform, right?

It's this big deal I wanna perform. And then you sit down and there's all this anxiety, right? There's all this pressure on you. And in general in life, anxiety affects performance. Now usually I will argue that it affects it negatively, right? Usually, performance is negatively affected in general when people are anxious, right? Sometimes not, right? Like I think there are certain people, and we marvel at these people like Tiger Woods where you can hit a golf shot straight where there's all people lined all up, I'm down both sides. I would kill someone, right? Even though I'm a good golfer, I would probably be like, you better move even though I'm aiming over here. You better move. But in general, typically that's the mindset with certain people. But that's not most right? And most anxiety affects performance negatively. And so it makes no sense to dump a whole gallon of anxiety on kids right before they're about to do something important.

So what I used to do again, right? What are you doing in your room that's working? What I do with my kids? And this was from my paraprofessional, right? Actually, it originally came from ESPN. So I was half asleep one night and I was watching ESPN Sports Center and it was, it was like half asleep and, and one of their football analysts came on and he said, when we won our Super Bowl, the only thing we focused on in our classroom was attitude and effort. That's all we focused on. We didn't focus on anything else. Like, so we didn't care how well you played. Like we didn't care. It didn't matter if you fumbled, didn't matter if you had an interception, it didn't matter if you dropped the pass. Like none of that matters. The only thing we cared about was the attitude you took while you were out there and the effort that you put in.

And like we just kept reminding each other of that all year, right? He was explaining this, right? Like we would grab each other's face masks and be like, Hey, attitude and effort, come on, change your attitude right now. Hey, you didn't that last play, you didn't play as hard as you could. It's not about success. It's not about success, it's about your attitude and your effort. And that's, and so immediately I sat up in my bed and I was like, that's my rallying cry for my student. And when I went in for the test, that's what my room became about. It became about attitude and effort. So it was, yeah, we're taking this test, but the test is really no different than anything else on a daily basis, right? The daily basis is the attitude you take and the efforts you put in. Whether it's this test or are you wiping a table down at McDonald's or whatever else you're doing in your life, right?

Are you the best one in the whole place that wipes the table down of all the table wipers that they got at McDonald's? Are you the one where managers like, or the owner's like, “Oh that guy's working, I don't even have to watch the cameras tonight. That store's gonna be spotless.” That's how good I know it's gonna be. Or are you the one who sprays it real quick and just wipes it and goes and stands at the register and talks to their friend? Which one are you? Right? Because there are different kinds of people and you try to make your students into the kind of human beings that you want them to be in the world. And so now they sit down on the test and my focal point has never for one second been on the score. You get it's only been on, look, listen, there are 50 questions or there are 40 questions.

It's on your stamina. Do you have the stamina? Can you run this marathon? Right? Are you gonna get tired after 20 or can you go till 50? That's the first thing we're looking at right now. We're looking at how much time is it? Okay? So it's this amount of time, this amount of questions in this amount of time, okay? What that means is if you don't know one, you're just gonna move on to the next one. Quit. And you're not gonna get annoyed. That's your attitude. Instead, you're just gonna be like, it doesn't matter that I don't know, number one, it's totally irrelevant. I tried, and I gave it every ounce of energy, but I only have X amount of time. So now I gotta go to number two and I'll go back to number one if there's time. But right now it's only number two that I'm focusing on.

And you do number two and you go, that's the way you do the task until there's certain ones that you know you got right? For sure. Cuz there will be some, right? The problem is some kids don't get to 'em, they get so caught up in a couple of problems and the time starts running down, the anxiety starts taking over and next thing you know, right? Whereas my class, you would just watch 'em take the test and they wouldn't know, number one, they'd go to number two and they would just, it didn't matter. Like I would literally say you got a 20 on the test. But that's just the state of New York. Like, don't listen to that. They don't know what the heck they're talking, talking about. And they don't, they're not the ones with you guys every day. They don't know the world you've come from.

They don't understand your stories. I do. And so I know that for this kid, A 45 is a phenomenal score cuz last week he got a 27. So you gave me, if you had $27 this week and you gave me 45 next week, you gonna try to argue with me that that's a bad investment? Cause I'm gonna say I'll take that all day long and I'm gonna be rich at the end of taking that all day long. And so sometimes the number is deceiving, one outta two in baseball, you're an all-star, you're the best player on the field, one out of two in math, you're a failure. That's why baseball's better than math. Special ed logic, right? Special ed logic baseball's better than Math. Why? Because one out two, you're an all-star. One out two, you're a failure. I like this one better than that one.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, well I think that's to your point, it's we need to universally shift the definition of success. Success isn't about the number of A's or yellow ribbons or awards that you get. It's attitude and effort in how you feel. And they think it's the same for the teachers in the building, for the administrators in the building. To me that is the root of so much of all of the stuff that we've been talking about today, is we just ignore the attitude. We say it, we say all the right things. Sometimes we're like, be kind and you know we're having safe spaces and social-emotional learning.

Brian Mendler:
It should be the foundation of every classroom. And it's a name, by the way, that should be the message to teachers from administrators. So some, right? Like someone's gotta stop just everyone needs to agree that anxiety affects performance negatively for most humans. And if everybody agrees on that, which is pretty universally agreed upon, now you work from there and you're like, okay, that's the foundation again. The foundation is, we're not adding anxiety to people here. We're not doing that. We're gonna teach 'em, we're gonna work with them, we're gonna train 'em, we're gonna get 'em ready. But we're not putting, we're not gonna talk about outcomes. Outcomes are, you know, how many times I do everything right in my life and I don't get the right outcome. What I mean like I'll get to the airport, I'm through security, I'm on time, my geek delay. What?

No, they don't even tell you half the time. I don't control that. I don't control that. What do I control right at that moment? What do I control? The attitude I take toward the poor person telling me that I'm delayed and everyone that's annoyed and the effort I put in and getting where I need to go. Okay, wait a minute. And so that's when I realized that with air, that's when I started booking multiple tickets on airlines because now in my head I just assume they're gonna be delayed. So now I've, I've already decided my alternative route. Why? That's all I control. I don't control whether you delay your flight, I control, did I look at every other option? Do I know what time the next flight leaves? Do I know what terminal it's in? Was I prepared to run? Do I have my running shoes on?

Do I have my dress shoes? Literally, all these things that like come into my personal mind as a person who travels a lot and a lot of times running for flights and like, did I have a liquid? Do I have a bag that can get through everywhere? Anywhere? So in case, I have to shift from one flight to another flight, what's the closest airport within 50 miles of this? I gotta get there, I gotta get there. And so that becomes your focal point. And you've already decided there are multiple ways to get to the same place, but sometimes you don't get there. If you live your whole life focused on the destination, you miss the journey. The journey, the fun, the most fun part, right? And that's the most fun part. And that I'll tell you to, to kind of finish up my, like that's what's been the most impactful thing in my life over the last few years is focusing my own focus change, switching my own focus, right?

Like I have three kids, I have 11 year old, nine year old, two year old, I travel a lot, right? There are a lot of people who look at my job and they're like, oh it's an amazing job. Like I would love to have your job. And it is, let me be clear, it's spectacular, right? It is the most incredible thing. It truly is. And I'm incredibly blessed and grateful to do what I do at the same time, right? They don't see me walking out on Sunday night at five o'clock to catch a flight to get to their school. They don't see my little two-year-old walking around the house going, Daddy looking for me cuz I was just home for two days and now I'm gone for two days. And he doesn't understand that. So the point is no matter what our job is, I'm not asking for sympathy.

I wanna be clear about that. I'm saying no matter what our job is there are negative parts of the job. But if you can also at the same time start to be like, yeah, okay Brian, but smack yourself a little and just start opening your eyes because tomorrow you're gonna be in Kentucky and the next day you get to go to Pennsylvania and then you're gonna be in New York and then you get to Alaska and like, can you just enjoy the journey? And like as I've started to enjoy the journey a lot more, I've started to really become a lot happier in my life. And I think that's the message overall for the teachers, but also that they should bring to the kids every day.


Jen Rafferty:
That's just it. It has to start with the adults in these spaces because the messages that the kids are getting are, the actions that they see that are modeled for them in these spaces. So I'm right there with you. I think this is, we're changing the course of education. You know, where this is important to get this message out.

Brian Mendler:
Everybody does their part. Everybody does their little part. And what's cool about the world today is right, you asked how I started and then I mean that's how I started. But that was before social media. Like when I first started doing presentations, I was traveling with my Discman. Literally, the first few times that I ever went out to a school, I had all my CDs and I have a Discman. And then today compared to today where there's a platform for everybody, there's no excuse anymore. Like you can have a podcast, you can write a book and publish it yourself and put parts of it on social media and if people like it, they will find it. Like that's the world that we're in today. And so the only excuse is laziness. Don't be lazy.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And we need to spread this message. It's too important not to. There's such a sense of urgency, especially with you having your young kids.

Brian Mendler:
Just that makes you valuable. Correct.

You too. Very good. Bye. Incredible. Right. Together we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible and it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

Are you tired of feeling overwhelmed and stressed in the education system? Are you ready to make a real impact and create generational change for our kids?

Join me as I interview Veronica Sopher, a renowned school communications leader with over two decades of experience in K-12 leadership. Veronica and I dive into the heart of the problem in education today - the need for appropriate mindset professional development for all adults in schools, not just teachers and leaders.

In this episode, we uncover the importance of self-care and reflection in the education system, especially in light of the ever-evolving expectations of parents, teachers, and staff. We explore the impact of COVID-19 on the education system and how we can recalibrate and rebuild for the future.

Veronica brings a wealth of knowledge on how to achieve a balance between masculine and feminine energy in leadership by embracing vulnerability. She shares her own experience of wearing pink and how it transformed how people responded to her. We also discuss how mindset professional development can shift traditional structures in education and create new models for the future.

If you're ready to reignite your passion for education and be part of the crucial time of school culture building, tune in to this episode of Take Notes. Veronica's wisdom will leave you feeling empowered, inspired, and ready to make a change for the better.

Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
 Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Veronica:
Veronica V. Sopher is a dynamic school communications leader with more than 20 years’ experience in K-12 leadership. She has served as the Chief Communications Officer for several large and mid-sized school districts. Sopher provides leadership, vision, direction and execution of major district
communication programs, strategies, events, and activities. She now consults full time in the K-12 Communications space.

Sopher believes in the power of selfcare and its dynamic impact on customer service, leadership development and teambuilding, especially in the K-12 space. After years of burning the candle at both ends and pushing herself to achieve, she realized that her physical and mental health were preventing
her from creating balance in her home and her two teenage daughters and husband were not getting her best self.

Sopher changed course, started investing in herself and reignited her mindset. This shift created a healthier homelife for her family, stronger and more effective productivity for her school district and leadership team and created a passion for sharing her learning with other K-12 leaders.

Throughout her career, she has earned numerous professional awards and has led national award-winning teams. Sopher serves as a mentor to several school communications professionals and has held
leadership positions for the Texas Schools Public Relations Association, including serving as President in 2021.

Connect with Veronica:
FB: Veronica V. Sopher
IG: @veronicavsopher
Website: www.veronicavsopher.com

TRANSCRIPT: Jen Rafferty:
The way we communicate has shifted over the last few years. We communicate more quickly. There's more transparency. And all of these changes can really feel unsettling. So today I'm talking with Veronica Sopher about how we can recalibrate our schools to these new realities about how we engage with each other in ways that are healthy and productive for everybody in our communities. And this all has to do with mindset. And in this connection to ourselves, we can maintain these new sustainable paradigms. And get ready for all the new programming coming out of Empowered Educator. Head on over to empowerededucator.com/workshops to get the professional development that you have been waiting for. I know you want to be an educator and live with more peace and ease and calm but you've never believed it was possible for you. Well, Empowered Educator workshops will show you the way it goes beyond the typical social-emotional content because here you will get the concrete strategies you need to live the life you want, both at home and at work. So grab your seat in the next Empowered Educator workshop by simply going to empowerededucator.com/workshops.


Introduction:
Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world. Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed, and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away. But it absolutely needs transformation.

Welcome to The Take Notes Podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified Emotional Intelligence Practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids. We need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy, and fulfillment. This is education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee, and grab your notebook, it's time to take notes.


Jen Rafferty:
Hello, and welcome back to another incredible episode of Take Notes. I am here with the wonderful Veronica Soopher, who is a dynamic school communications leader with more than 20 years of experience in K-12 leadership. She has served as the chief communications officer for several large and mid-sized school districts. And she provides leadership vision, direction, and execution of major district communication programs, strategies, events, and activities. And she now consults full-time in the K-12 communication space. And throughout her career, she has earned numerous professional awards and has led national award-winning teams. Veronica serves as a mentor to several school communications professionals and has held leadership positions for the Texas schools public relations association, including serving as president in 2021.

Veronica, thank you so much for being here with me today on Take Notes.

Veronica Sopher:
Thank you for having me. Very excited.

Jen Rafferty:
I'm excited to have this conversation with you. And I want to just dive right in. One of the things that we connected about initially was our passion for providing appropriate mindset professional development to all of the adults in schools, not just the teachers, and not just for the leaders, although obviously, that is important, too. But it is a more holistic approach to what we typically see in some of these programs. Can you talk a little bit about how and why that's important to you? And what that looks like?

Veronica Sopher:
Yeah, so part of my journey in School Public Relations is watching how communication has evolved, how the expectations of our parents have evolved, how our expectations of teachers and staff have evolved, and our elected officials. So I feel like public education, in particular, is really under attack on a national level. And I mean, when I say under attack, I mean literally under attack on a national level. So the way we communicate and how we have to emotionally be prepared for all of that really has changed and it's morphed. And we have to communicate more rapidly, we have to be more transparent.

Our teachers have a different level of expectation with a different type of parent now. And so I think now more than ever, self-care and the ability to reflect on what it is we're doing reconnecting to our why reestablishing the types of norms that we want to engage our families with, is really important. And so I think we're in a very crucial time of full culture building. And we're having to reevaluate what that looks like at every level. And so this conversation is really exciting and passionate. And, I'm passionate about it because I think it's got an opportunity for growth. And I've had conversations with people all over the country in recent years, especially since COVID. And we're just having to recalibrate how we engage. And it's just it's a different mindset. And not everyone is up for it. So we're having to do a lot of extra training and guiding and as lifelong learners, we have to just be ready to take on what's next.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure, and that recalibration is a word that I don't think we give enough credit to. That is a really important word that's just gonna be there for a minute of recalibration because I think we are very reactive. And we kind of go through the motions as to okay, what's on fire, what needs to be put out, what do I do next? What's the next step? What's the next move? And we don't actually take the time to sit with that, and really recalibrate to where we are. So we can be where our feet are. So what does that recalibration process mean for you?

Veronica Sopher:
So as a communications professional, and as someone who supports school districts across the country, it's literally putting a mirror in front of them and saying, “Hey, let's take a second. Where are your parents? Where's your board? Where are your teachers emotionally? Where are they managing their stress?” And once I can get a school district to really reflect on that, then they can decide where that recalibration needs to happen. Maybe it's in the supports, they give them teachers with employee wellness programs, maybe it's loosening classroom walks, and reducing how we put work on teachers to manage the day to day, sometimes it goes up. And we have to support our principals and our administrators and give them the tools that they need. Because the world has changed. And we are in a ketchup period with our kids.

Some studies have said, it's going to take us up to seven years to catch up from the couple of years, we lost here at COVID, especially in that social-emotional component. And that's showing up in our classrooms in our school buildings every day. So to answer your question, more specifically, what that looks like for me is it really requires me as a support for school systems and superintendents to put that mirror in front of them and ask them to really be honest and evaluate where they are, as a system, acknowledge where there are gaps, and then put systems into place to address those gaps. Because we're already too late, you know, there's that John Legend song, he had formed it, I know, his mom was a teacher, he performed it for a group of educators, it's already too late. So we got to jump on this now. And we've got to be able to provide support for our kids.



Jen Rafferty:
Yes. And I think that when we look at what it means to take care of this ecosystem, that is in a school district, the tendency is to get very myopic about it. But what you're saying, and this is extremely true, is that in order to do that, effectively, we really need to step back and take a larger perspective of what's going on, so that the mirror needs to be very large, it can't just be one thing, because it's not one thing. We live in context with lots of other things. And sometimes that mirror is very confronting and uncomfortable to look at. Right?

Veronica Sopher:
For sure. And I mean, as evidenced by the number of superintendents who have retired and resigned nationwide. We have more first-time superintendents in this country than we have ever had. And now on a side note, we've also had more female superintendents than we've ever had, which is a wonderful thing. But it really speaks to how difficult it's been. And some people just chose not to do what needed to come next. And that's okay. I mean, they've earned that. And we have to applaud them for getting us this far. But now it's time to pick up the baton and keep going.

Jen Rafferty:
And I think hearing you say that there's almost this rebirth that's happening out of the chaos and crisis that was COVID, things seemingly fell apart. But that also lays the groundwork for some really beautiful opportunities where it seems like new people and fresh blood, it's picking up where we left off to hopefully move into new directions.

Veronica Sopher:
Absolutely. It's like when we're studying history, and we looked at the rebirth of Japan after World War II. And it literally took them having to be devastated to rebuild, reinvent themselves as an economy as a culture, as a country. And we teach our kids to look at all the different aspects of that. But we need to put that model and overlay it onto what it is we're doing right now in the K-12 space and say, “Okay, COVID did this to us. And now we get to rebuild, what does it look like? What is rebuilding look like? How are we supporting our staff? How are we adhering to compliance and accountability? And how are we making sure that our students have all the resources they need to be successful? And how do we not burn out our teachers?” Because they're on a journey too and some of them are in deep crisis. Anyone who was on the frontline really was in deep crisis during that time. And so we're trying to support all of those things. At the same time, we're trying to celebrate the new birth that we're experiencing. And so I think for some people, it's more challenging than others. But as a whole, I think everyone's really excited about what's next.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure. Well, the birthing process is painful.

Veronica Sopher:
Yes, yes.



Jen Rafferty:
Let's, let's just be clear about that, right? I mean, it all sounds beautiful, but it does not come without growing pains and significant strain, both physically and emotionally, and mentally. And that is part of the process. And I think it's really easy to feel you had mentioned earlier that we're under attack, it's easy to feel that we need to put up this armor and have this fight. And from where I'm standing is that when we put up all this armor, we're actually perpetuating the fight. That it's when we're taking it off and really using our voice and standing in our power and asking for what we need and being vulnerable with each other creating safe spaces for people to be vulnerable with each other. That's when the change actually starts to happen. So can you speak a little bit about what that shift could look like?

Veronica Sopher:
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because I recently delivered a keynote speech where we talked about the heroine's journey and how different it was from the hero's journey. From a literary perspective. Most of us have read John Camp or Joseph Campbell's work on the hero's journey, and his textbook, you know, Luke Skywalker, you immediately go to Disney, Lion King, all those kinds of things. But what I love about the hero's journey is that there's a spot for nurturing, there's a spot for really understanding the depths of the sorrow that comes with that journey. And then embracing the vulnerability that comes with us that we have that comes naturally, that we celebrate it.

Because oftentimes, especially in these power roles, as principals or as leaders, we shut down that vulnerability because we see it as a weakness. And we're trying to exist in this male-dominated context of leadership. So we don't allow some of that to happen. And what I love about the heroine's journey, it's Maureen Murdock, if you've never read the book, Maureen Murdock, where we really reunite and reconnect to that mother-daughter relationship is when we can allow that vulnerability to shine and still make it part of our success. And it means embracing the male energy that we have and the female energy and then finding that “Balance.” Because so oftentimes, we've put our armor on to lead a school to lead a feeder pattern, to lead a district, and we're not allowed some of our feminine energy to really drive our decision-making. And in COVID, I think it hurts some of our organizations.

And so when we get down through those depths, those deep, deep parts, and we find all that reflection, we start to come out, and we reunite with all of that the beauty of the heroine's journey is love and joy and success and vulnerability, and all of those things that we are working towards in a school system come together, when we can embrace both parts of that. So you can still be a strong administrator, you can still be a strong teacher, and you can still be vulnerable and still shed a tear, and still pause and reflect, and be grateful and appreciative for what we have, and still let that armor support what you're doing. And I think oftentimes, we think it's “either-or” that they can't coexist, but they can. And when you find that when you as a leader, get to that point in your life, where you can find that you embrace it, and it looks different for everybody. Right?

Everyone's journey is a little bit different. For me, it was really embracing fuchsia and wearing pink, which I do. I mean, I'm on brand all the time. But for the longest time, I felt like black and gray was what I needed to be wearing, because I was surrounded by men who wore black and gray. And it seems simple now, but really just allowing that color to express my energy changed how people responded to me at every level. And so I think, for female leaders in particular, finding that which allows your inner energy to shine is going to give you the power and reinforce the armor that you've already put on.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes to all of this. I'm buzzing all over because Veronica I have to tell you, I went to a retreat a few weeks ago, and the theme of the retreat was divine feminine power. So you are speaking my language and I want to synthesize but then ask a question here for clarification for our listeners who aren't as familiar in this male-female energy space, which isn't about gender, by the way, just also making that very clear. Our strength is the thing that needs to be redefined. Where our strength truly comes from our humanity. And when we attach all of these other extraneous things to it, like pushing through and progress and productivity and checklists and hustle and busyness, we miss the point of our humanity. And because while on the surface, the optics of that might look like strain, what's actually happening underneath the surface there is killing you quite literally.

Veronica Sopher:
Yes!

Jen Rafferty:
Physically. It's physically. So there's no way to keep that as a sustainable model for what you want to do in this world. It's just not working. So creating space to redefine strength and your power as to being authentically you, you are no longer fitting that square peg into that round hole, we've all been where you were, I mean, we'll use that fuchsia color as a metaphor here. We've all wanted to wear fuchsia in some way, but felt that it wasn't appropriate for whatever space we were entering in. And particularly as a woman moving into a male-dominated field of leadership, it is almost as if we want to shapeshift into whatever the energy is in that space. But truly, when you do that, you pretzel yourself so much that you're not able to show up as who you really are. It's only when you're comfortable with who you are, so you can show up authentically, is when you actually shine. So I'm so glad you said all of those things. And so for the people who are listening who aren't quite familiar with this idea of masculine-feminine energy, can you kind of lay it out so it's really easy to understand?

Veronica Sopher:
Yeah, the long and short of it is again, there are a lot of different variations but if you think about Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Journey, his idea is that the masculine energy really is the aggressor. It's the person, the seeker, the seeker who is going out who's going to power through, and who's going to find a solution, sometimes with the help of others. But that energy is designed to provide, and it's designed to protect.

So then his other thoughts around it are the feminine energy, which Maureen Murdock really touches on, which is women now that energy to it just looks a little bit different. So when we are protected when we persevere, and when we go through our journey, our energy is not always as aggressive. It's oftentimes embedded with compassion, and empathy, because she asserts that nature designed us that way, for the ability to rear children. And how do we use that energy to still accomplish the same thing? And I think her assertion that women in the feminine energy are still able to do that is very powerful because I think when we consider Joseph Campbell's original concept of it's “either-or” Maureen Murdock's concept is “and”. I think she had the whole philosophy around, you know, a father's daughter, and how a daughter who idolizes her father has a tendency, oftentimes, and she's a psychiatrist on top of it, so a lot of her work is around that is a daughter's desire to be successful and accomplished. “I don't want to be the PTA Mom, I don't want to be the stay-at-home mom, I don't want to be the carpool Mom, I want to be that the lawyer or the doctor or the architect or the CFO.” And so her belief is, we are still embracing our feminine energy, when we say those things, we've just made it have some sort of outer shell to appease our father or to get our father's praise.

And so we map on that male energy on top of our female energy. And so it's a really interesting conversation, if you have a chance to read either book, I suggest you read them both. Because when you can read them both, you can get a better sense of that. But in essence, that's the positions that they put for us.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, it's so interesting. And also to be clear, you know, women have both, men are both too.

Veronica Sopher:
Absolutely!

Jen Rafferty:
And it's in this construct in the context of our society, the air that we breathe, that we kind of take on these roles, and identities based on these kinds of things. But what's really cool about knowing that is that it's malleable, it's fluid, and we can make choices about where we want to come from, but it's not always going to be one place or the other. It's like you said it's “and”. If we can just stay here for another minute because I think this is just so interesting.

In an industry, that is education that is predominantly built on the female workforce, as teachers and predominantly male workforce as leaders changing structure in that paradigm seems to be difficult because that's the obstacle, right? We are in masculine constructs, where it's predominately made up of women in the workforce, and the people who are making the decisions are mostly men. And so how then can we tie in the work that you do, regarding mindset, start to shift some of those traditional structures where we can actually create new models of what these education systems can look like?

Veronica Sopher:
Yeah, that's a really great question. And that's a conversation I just had with a female superintendent who was just appointed and part of the coaching with her was allowing her to embrace that feminine energy and celebrate her new role as the CEO. She'd been a deputy superintendent had been a principal campus principal, had been a team leader, and had really risen through the ranks. And every time she got more matriculated up into a different role. She felt like she lost a piece of that feminine energy. She no longer was that elementary school teacher who loves having kids come and hug her and you know, be on her, and as a superintendent, what's that look like now? So we really did some great work around mindset in particular, and embracing what got her into education. Reconnecting with her why. Reconnecting to that first-year teacher right out of college, who got to set up the classroom for the first time with all those colors and with all those borders, and you know, all those tax and staples that you have to use to get your room together. Reconnecting to that sense of I belong here, this is my calling. And then mapping that emotion onto the superintendency. Right? Because it's still your first day on the job. It's still the first opportunity you get to put your classroom together. It just happens to be on a much bigger scale. And you still have team leads, you still have a cabinet you still have a board that you're accountable to.

Embracing that mindset of this is fresh new and I am honored to get an opportunity to lead this educational institution. Just like you were honored when you got to lead that maybe kindergarten class for the first time. And reconnecting to the why is the first step. And then embracing what you've learned all through your career, and finding ways to share that and to inspire other leaders to be innovative, to be creative. Some of our most exciting experiences in our careers were when we were able to teach something to someone and bring together a lesson plan that really exploded and created a lot of conversation and collaboration and a lot of aha moments. Well, guess what you're doing as a superintendent? You're also creating that for other leaders, and for parents, and for community members, and for lawmakers. It just looks a little bit different. We just have to get back to basics. And some of that getting back to basics is reconnecting with your why. And that's really what all mindset work is about. It's just reconnecting to your why.

Jen Rafferty:
And you know, I think that also helps with alleviating feelings of impostor syndrome.

Veronica Sopher:
Absolutely. There's a joke that one of my colleagues and I used to have both C-suite executives in a school district. And we're in the middle of attendance boundaries, we're in the middle of asking the community to pass a bond. We're in the middle of all these really high stakes, things that were happening, transitioning to online learning, we looked at each other, and we said, “Are we seriously in charge? I mean, does no one really have the answers? How are we creating this on the fly? Are we smart enough? Are we qualified enough?” And all of a sudden, it became this gap, people just digging themselves into this hole of imposter syndrome until one of us had enough wherewithal to say, “Of course we do. We know what we're doing. Nobody else knows what they're doing. No one else has lived through a global pandemic.” And had to talk about it in its boundaries. And so when we really take a moment and pause, we can step back and say, “Yes, I have the skills, I have the passion, I have what it takes. And if I don't, I'm gonna find it.” And I think for some leaders, it's so easy to get caught up in that and forget to take a moment to pause and remember those things.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure, because you're so in it, which is why it's important to work with a coach.

Veronica Sopher:
That's right. Everybody needs a coach, why to it's fantastic. You need them.

Jen Rafferty:
You need them, you absolutely do. Because when you're in it, you actually can't see the possibilities, because you're focusing on the problem and the situation at hand. And having that other person on the other side is going to be an opportunity for you to actually have that bigger paradigm and that bigger perspective. So yeah, so important. So I have to ask to this question I asked everybody is- What is your dream for the future of education?

Veronica Sopher:
My dream is that lawmakers will fully fund public education so that every student everywhere has every resource they need to be successful.

Jen Rafferty:
Amen.

Veronica Sopher:
Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I have a lot of emotions. And I can tell you all the secondary reasons why. But at the end of the day, it comes down to money, it comes down to money, and our students deserve more all across the country. They deserve the higher paid teachers, they deserve more resources. And my dream is that we as a country, would value public education, like our lives depended on it. And if we did, we would fund it the way we fund other projects.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure, would, we sure would. Thank you for sharing that dream. It's beautiful. And I really do believe that the more that we share our dreams out loud, the closer we are to actually realizing them. So thank you for that.

Veronica Sopher:
Yes!

Jen Rafferty:
Yes! And so how can folks get in touch with you and learn more about your work?

Veronica Sopher:
Absolutely. My website is pretty simple. It's Veronica V. As in Victoria, people asked me all the time what my middle name is. It's Victoria. So it's veronicavsopher.com. And there's lots of links, you can get ahold of me there. I'm also on social media at all the places @veronicavsopher, and I look forward to connecting with folks. I enjoy supporting school districts and leaders, and I love customer service and mindset work. So if that's something your school district or your school needs, please reach out.

Jen Rafferty:
Thank you for that all of those links are going to be in the show notes will be super easy for people to get in touch with you. And you are just a wealth of knowledge. And it seems like we've connected a lot in the last two weeks, which has been really cool. And every time I just, I love talking with you. I feel very inspired. And that leaves me with lots of things to think about. So please reach out to Veronica. She's a wonderful resource. So thank you so much for being with me today and talking on Take Notes. I really appreciate your time.

Veronica Sopher:
Absolutely. Thanks so much.

Jen Rafferty:
And if you've enjoyed today's episode, make sure to share it with a friend and subscribe so you never miss an episode of Take Notes. And we'll see you next time!

Incredible right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at Empowered Educator Faculty room on Facebook.

Do you ever feel empty or lost deep inside? Are you hungry for more happiness and fulfillment?
As we strive to create career success for ourselves, we can get so focused on our job that we forget to slow down and acknowledge our thoughts and feelings, which causes us to feel disconnected from ourselves.
So how do you reconnect with yourself?
Welcome to episode 34 of Take Notes with Jen Rafferty podcast! Today, I’m joined by Ben Yeh. He is an entrepreneur, business/conscious leadership coach and creator of transformations.
As you join us today, Ben will share the importance of having a heart-centered approach to your life. By discovering how to slow down, you’ll be able to listen to your intuition which will help you learn about yourself and really understand what makes you happy.
Are you ready to embrace a life that empowers you?
Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
 Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Ben:
Benjamin Yeh is a Business & Transformation Coach. Ben's career has evolved from being a real estate consultant, investment officer for a family office where he invested over $1 billion dollars, serial entrepreneur, husband, father, speaker, advisor/coach and overall student of life. Combining his investment experience, business coaching and spiritual journey, Ben empowers heart-centered entrepreneurs on how to gain clarity in their purpose (their 'True North'), and live an enriching life: physically, mentally and spiritually. Ben launched his Boom Vision Podcast in 2021, a show all about health, wealth and higher self! This show dives deep on how to create a fulfilling, abundant life: it starts with a powerful mindset!
Connect with Ben:
IG: @benjaminyeh
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminyeh

TRANSCRIPT: Jen Rafferty:
Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching? Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed, and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away but it absolutely needs transformation.

Welcome to The Take Notes Podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids. We need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy, and fulfillment. This is education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee, and grab your notebook. It's time to Take Notes.

Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another fabulous episode of taking notes. Today I have an incredible guest. This is Ben Yeh, who is a business and transformation coach whose career has evolved from being a real estate consultant, investment officer for a family office, serial entrepreneur, husband, father, speaker, advisor, coach, and overall student of life. Combining his investment experience, business coaching, and spiritual journey, Ben uses a heart-centered approach to guide people in gaining clarity and their purpose or their true north and live an enriching life physically, mentally, and spiritually.

Ben launched his Boom Vision podcast in 2021, a show all about health, wealth, and a higher self. This show dives deep into how to create a fulfilling abundant life and it starts with a powerful mindset. And I cannot wait to talk about all those things with you today. Ben, thank you so much for being here.

Ben Yeh:
Thank you so much for having me, Jen. I'm so excited to be here today.

Jen Rafferty:
A lot of what you talk about is really aligned with the work that I do in Empowered Educator and talk about with the guests who come on this podcast. So can we just talk for a second about a heart-centered approach? How do you define that? What is that?

Ben Yeh:
Great question. So the way I define heart-centered is that the thoughts you have and the actions you take are aligned with what you're feeling in your heart. And one step to becoming more heart-centered is not just only being 100% logic base, because when I think about my cell, when I was in my early 30s, I was very much left brain, very much 100% logic base.

There's this old saying that there are no feelings and emotions in business, you kind of just have to leave it on the doorstep. But I don't believe that. Now, I don't believe that before I did. That was a belief system that I had. But to become heart-centered, it's to be able to know that what you're doing, what you're thinking and actions you're taking, are just in alignment with what you're truly feeling inside.

I mean, how often and in times, whether it was at school, or in business, or any kind of environment where all the data, all the statistics are showing you that it's going one way, but something your heart is saying “Nah, it doesn't feel right”. But you ignore it because you're like, “No, no,” but logically, that doesn't make sense. You should be doing that. And then in hindsight, we look back like “Oh, my gosh, I should have listened to intuition”. And that's the thing, like, I can't tell you how many times in my past couple of decades, often that's happened to me.

But now it's like, “Wait if my intuition is telling me something, my body is telling me something, I need to pay attention to that. I need to lean in on that.” And if I do, that's when I can become more aware and just more heart-centered.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure. And it's a beautiful way to describe that. I think one of the challenges we face is that we are taught not to trust ourselves, because from what you're saying, this heart-centered approach really goes hand in hand with self-trust, and not only recognizing your intuition but then acknowledging something that isn't necessarily tangible that your logical mind can't process.

So we have to trust the feelings that we have. But we're taught, especially when we're little and then it gets reinforced as we get older that it is not safe to trust ourselves. In fact, we should probably ask 15 of our friends about a decision we want to make before we even recognize what's really in our hearts. So can you speak a little bit about that? Or what are some of the challenges of people connecting to that heart-centered place of self-trust?

Ben Yeh:
Yeah, so the question that pops into mind is, I often get asked, well, what's the difference between your inner voice and your intuition?

I can't tell the difference between either and then I'll make a distinction between the two because sometimes our inner voice, the way I described in my show is that it's merely an output of all the programming we have in our subconscious. When we are first born, ages zero to seven, we're downloading a lot of different observations and programs that we see from our immediate environment that could be from our parents or family or surroundings. And Dr. Bruce Lipton has said, 70% of what we download in our early years is typically disempowering and negative.

And so what that implies is that you'll hear your two NOs for every one YES. So a little side story, Jen is that when my son, when he first started walking, it was when he was like a toddler. It's like a little tank, his head always bunks into the corners of tables, and we had to like these bumper stickers on the corner tables just to make sure that he's protected.

And I remember vividly, there's one incident where he's about to block his head on a table. And I'm like, no, don't do that. Wait a minute. within one second, I said five NOs. And I didn't even say it. Yes. Okay. So why do some people have a tendency to see the world half empty rather than half full? Well, it's because we had all these downloads of more NOs than yes, it made me much more aware of the language, I use it for my kids and my empowering them or my disempowering, though. So our inner voice, if we tend to be our worst critic, rather than our best cheerleader, if you're very self-critical, just know it's not you, it's actually just programming that you just had an upgrade in from your subconscious.

And so that's typically your inner voice. Your inner voice usually has more of a negative connotation to it, it might be speaking from fear, or it might be speaking from lack. And the intuition, from what I've observed is an intuition. By the way, another way of saying it is your soul GPS, it's your internal guidance system. It's just merely there to let you know, are you going on the right track or do you need to turn right? And if you think about the voice depending on whether you use Siri or Waze app, or whatever it may be, that tone is always very steady. And so the thing about intuition is that it's not typically emotionally charged, not negatively charged, and is usually very calm. And as a singleton, you are going to re-track or do any course corrections.

And when you learn to lean in on how it is that your soul GPS wants to communicate with you, because it's different for everyone, for some folks might actually see a vision for some people, and actually feel something in their body. Other people might have a different tone in their inner voice in their head that's different from their inner voice. It just depends, but you just have to be able to be still and observe well, how is it, my soul GPS, my intuition wants to communicate with me. And until you understand that language, then you'll have a better idea of when it is trying to signal communication with you.

I mean, we're talking about in the form of education. So imagine your entire life, you've been taught English as a first language, and you haven't been taught a second language. And all of a sudden, you might be doing something, and then getting this word jumbled up. It sounds like snow. It's like snow, what snow? What does that mean? Right? But I don't live in the mountains, that doesn't mean anything to me. And then you go on your day, and a couple of days, weeks later, and then you hear the word snow again, but you don't know what that means.

But if you take a moment to pause, and you slow it down, oh, it's actually trying to say, see, or no way, it's been trying to tell Spanish to me? What, right? And until you calm yourself to be able to quiet the mind and see how it is? Is it yes or no, if you don't pay attention, and within your busy day, it gets jumbled up and you just know, okay, no, that doesn't mean anything. And you just dismiss it. I'm using Spanish as a metaphor. But your intuition is always there. It just matters, are you quietly calming yourself to see how it wants to communicate with you?

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, that's an interesting analogy that you use, I appreciate that because it makes me think of it in a different way. I tend to think of the inner voice as the mind and intuition as the body. So for me, understanding the language of your body is really the key here because like you're saying, you know, if you've never learned Spanish before, it's something that is being said to you in Spanish, you're not gonna understand if we are not used to listening to our body that is something we can easily ignore that stomach ping that you get when something doesn't feel aligned or the tightness in your chest and it could be so fleeting, and we brush it off so often is just like, oh, well, you know, I don't know what must be indigestion. Or maybe I have a little gas. It's something like that. But if you're really to slow down, you would start to notice these feelings as hints of where you are aligned and where you aren't aligned. And for me, I can share my personal story with finding what that feels like.

I've described it before as almost like a metal detector, where I feel kind of like this beeping sound when I'm on the right path. And when I'm pretty locked in, that is very clear to me. But that was not always the case. It was really a lot of the work that I know that you have done also to be comfortable, first of all, knowing that I have an intuition. And then second of all, knowing the language of intuition. And then lastly, learning how to trust intuition. And I think that's always been the journey.

Ben Yeh:
Yeah, I love that example, Jen. Because the other analogy I use, I use the car analogy a lot on my show. And what I mean by the car analogy is if you're an entrepreneur and your business, your business, is just a vehicle, you are the driver. But your physical body, that's the vehicle, your mind really is the driver.

And to take that analogy a little bit further, if you're driving an electric car, if you have like a Tesla, for example, and you have this dashboard, and you have driven cars you've been driving in the last couple of decades, which is there's four there are parts, there's reverse, and then you have the speedometer, and then the fuel gauge, and that's it. But there are all these other functions on the dashboard, you don't know just it's always there, you just have to understand a language and how it's being activated. Yeah, the GPS is, so whether you want to use it or not, it's there.

And what happens if one day, your dashboard is just flashing this orange sign, you don't notice it will change what it is that you don't know what it is. But it blinks a couple of times and it goes away and they just dismiss it. Well, it's blinking there for a reason. It just depends on whether you want to seek to understand that or not. But it could be blinking or you could have that parking assistant, where if you get too close to something, it beeps, just like what you're saying.

Everyone is different, how it wants to communicate with you, it's going to be different for everyone. But having that said doesn't mean it's not there. It's just you have to be able to distill it in a way. And so let's use an analogy in the form of education. So I want to use the words that your audience will really resonate with. So another example is if you're in an auditorium with 300 students, and you're just one of 299 students, and you have a teacher up on a stadium and a podium trying to say something to you.

Now, if that was your soul GPS, if that was your intuition, do you think what is trying to signal to you, will you be able to listen, if you're sitting in the back row of that auditorium when you've got 299 other kids that are just yapping away and talking, probably not. It's a low probability I've seen. It's impossible, it's a low probability. But if you're able to quiet your mind because think about Jen, how many thoughts are running through your mind on a daily basis?

Jen Rafferty:
Tens of thousands, yes.


Ben Yeh:
Tens of thousands. And I'm just using an example 300. But if you just pause, and then if it comes through, chances are you're increasing the probability.

Oh, I didn't know that was trying to simply mean, now I've heard it. Now once you hear it, that's another thing whether you want to agree with it, listen to it, or do something about it. But you're increasing the probability of being able to understand it and establish wait, how is it a try and communicate with you?

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, and I think the big piece of this is being comfortable slowing down, for me, I grew up on Long Island, and slow was just not part of my vernacular. It just wasn't. And even now, where I am now, in central New York, things are a little bit of a slower pace that's in my DNA, still bad, like hardcore. So that's how I built my life of go, do, achieve, more, busy, hustle, and for a while, when I first came to this work, and one of the first things that, my mentor said, this, we're going to try to slow down, like we were what, excuse me, I don't even know what that means. What does that mean?

If I slow down, then all the balls drop, I'm holding all the balls up in the air. I don't think I can. And that was actually the first story that I had to get rid of and let go of in order to even get my mind in a place where I was open, to be quiet to hear the things I couldn't hear anything because I kept it so busy. And part of the reason why and we might digress here a little bit and go in a different direction but we can come back you know, is one of the reasons why we keep it so busy is because we're afraid of what we're going to find when it stops and there's pain there and there's wounds and there's trauma and there's hurt right so you and I are talking about this from a place of we've been in this now for a long time but going back to the beginning even just the idea of slowing down was challenging to wrap my brain around.

Ben Yeh:
Oh my god, okay so I'm getting an intuitive hit so tell me we're on the right track here, Jen. I totally mean what you say. And let me explain why. So this reminds me, I think it was like three, two months ago, I was at a parent-teacher conference. My son's in third grade right now and in the education system that he's part of we love our teacher, a teacher was saying how early in the year kids are learning to read because then they can read to learn.

Jen Rafferty:
Pillar of third grade, yes!

Ben Yeh:
First, you learn to read, so then you can read to learn. And that quote always stuck with me. Then when I reflect back, why it resonates so much with me is because sometimes people misunderstand what meditating is about, you actually learn to meditate so that you can then meditate to learn about yourself, you're not meditating, because for the sake of sitting cross-legged for 30 minutes, because if I do that, Jen, I'm going to fall asleep, that method just doesn't work for me. But that doesn't stop me from still quieting the mind.

Because meditation comes in all forms. It could be breath work, it could be yoga, it could be walking around the block in nature, it could just be doing something in repetition, that you're just basically letting the thoughts that are racing in your mind, to give it a pause, to give it a breath. Because in those moments of stillness, you're going to start learning more about yourself. That's the purpose of it. And so that it just reminds me when you're talking about that, I get it, the first part of it might be really daunting. It might be, “Wow, this is a giant leap of faith” a little because you might not want to confront some of the things because if I just go go go, I don't have to keep looking back.

But it doesn't go away, that Albert Einstein's quote, energy cannot be created or destroyed can only be transformed from one form to another. And that's the thing about energy about positive or negative experiences, like trauma, it can occur, and you might have a belief system attached to it. But if you bury it doesn't mean it goes away, it's still there in you. And it might get triggered by other things unless you know how to express it and feel through it and let it go.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, it's definitely gonna get triggered. And the thing is to, you know, part of this journey is to create the safety and understanding that the things that you're going to find when you slow down, you get an opportunity now to come from a place of curiosity because you can't grow, expand, become a new version of yourself if you're not also doing the healing. So get one or the other, you get both. And it doesn't always feel good. But reaping the rewards of this. I think the consciousness revolution that you get to go through in this work is, I believe, one of the most important things we do in this world, if not the most important thing, because otherwise, what are we doing?

Ben Yeh:
Yeah, totally. I love the word you use, curiosity. It’s that one quote, be curious, not judgmental. I don't know if you watch that TV show, Ted Lasso. What's a great show, by the way. Be curious, not judgmental. Because if you just have that open curiosity, and you're not letting your inner critic judge yourself on just being curious, it opens a whole new world, you start asking different questions, which then profoundly can impact a different reality.

Jen Rafferty:
Completely, and that's something we were talking about before we even pressed the record. It's like, it doesn't really matter what you're doing, it matters what questions you're asking, which, by the way, comes from Neil deGrasse Tyson's book, Starry Messenger, go read it after this podcast, go get it from the library, ordered from Amazon. It's a great book. But a lot of this work then comes from this idea of having a different mindset and this really comes into where a lot of your work lives. And you have these three core pillars of building this powerful mindset. Can we go into that a little bit, so we can kind of have a framework to start thinking about what this even looks like?

Ben Yeh:
Yes, absolutely. Thank you for asking that. So let's go back to that car analogy. Imagine and close your eyes, if you were driving and your windshield is completely fogged up, so you have little to no visibility. And you've got the music pumped up really loud, the stereo and really loud inside your car so that if there's an outside car trying to honk at you trying to warn you, you won't be able to listen to it.
And then let's say your legs feel numb, where you don't know how soft or hard you're pressing the gas pedal. If you just imagine that that's like a recipe for disaster. You're pretty much heading into an accident, whether you want to or not. And why I use that as imagery is because in life if you don't allow yourself to expand your imagination, what you're seeing mentally, if you don't actually listen and understand or how to upgrade your inner voice what you hear mentally. And if you don't tap into and understand the language of your intuition, what you're feeling internal, what you see, what you hear, and what you feel completely changes and defines your inner world and then gets amplified to outer reality. So if you know how to go into what I call the inner gym if you go into your inner gym and you are exercising and expanding your imagination, are you imagining out of eight and a half by 11 Pieces of paper, or is the entire world your canvas?

How limited or expansive is your imaginationYour voice, your inner voice? Are you your worst critic? Or are you your best cheerleader? And if you can have that awareness, and if that awareness is telling you, this doesn't really support me where I want to grow and grow, then how do you create it so that it can? And then your intuition? What are we talking about earlier about the feeling? Is it a signal to you within a sense of feeling, is it from vision or is it auditory?

Everyone's going to be different, but that feeling internally, when you see what you hear what you feel, creates your inner world that amplifies your outer reality. So if you're not happy with what's going on externally then if you just pause and say, Well, what can I work on internally that may be creating this that's manifesting this, then you're asking different questions that might get to the root cause.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes, and it is always you, that’s the thing. And what's wonderful about that is that even though you might be the problem, you are also the solution. When we point our fingers at every external thing, then that's where we lose our power. That's where we become disempowered because we are handing it over to anyone and anything. And the only thing that we have agency in is ourselves. And we see this all the time, you know, people just blaming, putting blame on their own way of being because of the circumstances that they feel that they're in.

But in shifting that idea, and using that imagination, being comfortable and dreaming bigger, bigger than that eight-and-a-half by 11 pieces of paper, listening to that voice, understanding what your intuition is, things don't change unless you change, it's cliche because it's true, you get to be used to change, you change.

Ben Yeh:
Totally, that's exactly it and that's really why I created my podcast the type of coaching I do is because it's really looking at what's the root cause we can't just only be treating the symptoms because that's just the surface level.

You gotta go in deep to understand well, what's really what's the belief or limiting belief that you have, that might be anchoring it right. Another way I say it is metaphorically if you're telling me your vision in life, your career, your business is to run the Boston Marathon or D’ Ironman. And when I listen to your words you use them because our language and words have energy behind it. If I listened to it, and it's like, well, why is it anchored to the 5k Level yet your aspiration is to do the Boston Marathon? What do you have to do to let go of that limiting belief so that you can upgrade your language from 5k to 10k to half marathon to marathon? It takes steps, but you gotta be able to understand its own language. We use the thoughts we have, is it energetically in a similar frequency to what we aspire to want to grow to. Because if it's not, and there's a gap, then you have to understand what really is causing that gap.

Jen Rafferty:
Right! And I think that circles back to what we were saying earlier about this heart-centered approach because it's about alignment, alignment in our thoughts and our beliefs and our words and our actions and our intentions. If they're not aligned, we're actually not going to the place we want to go. In fact, we're probably just spinning on a hamster wheel wondering why we haven't moved anywhere.

Ben Yeh:
Yeah. And it's really funny you say that too. Because in this world where we have this love-hate with hustle and grind. Because when I think of those words, you know, everyone's promoting entrepreneurship, and it's this hustle and grinds mindset. Well, not really. Because when I think of that, I think of a hamster running in the hamster wheel. And it's like, gosh, it just every day becomes Groundhog's Day.

Jen Rafferty:
Sure and it's not just entrepreneurship, because if you think about the rigor and I'm using kind of air quotes, I know you can't see if you're listening, but the rigor that's expected in schools, it is parallel to that hustle, do more achieve go more, more, more, more. And without that other thing that I know, you're gonna talk to you about a second, you know, the other part of this hamster wheel coin, were just on it. And then to what game? Where's the game?

Ben Yeh:
Yeah. And it's just, we're in this hamster wheel. And all we're doing is just putting your head down and just doing go go go. Without asking, “wait, can you just pause and just pop your head up?” And like, are you even going in the right direction? Because I'm at a point in my life, Jen, where I would rather take one step in the right direction than 10 miles in the wrong direction. It's just so over that right now.

Jen Rafferty:
But then why do we have to wait until we're in our 30s and 40s and 50s to figure this out, especially as educators, you are in a position right now to embody this yourself because those messages that are going to be given to the kids in your classroom have what's important. Where are you going, lift up your head. Are you even going in the direction that you want? Those are the questions that we need to be asking ourselves

Ben Yeh:
Yeah. And does it feel right? That's the thing. In the business context, because my previous chapter was all about the business and investment world, there are times when you're looking at a deal. And it's like, well, I don't know if the partners are right. Well, you look at a deal, there's a lot of opportunity to make money here. It's like we have but if you're not feeling right with the people you're with, then what's really the point and often does actually pan out for it to actually make it a win usually pans out for a loss because the pieces weren't right, there was no alignment. And I had to learn the hard way. Wow, that alignment piece, I wish we would have been taught that early in life.

So that we can lean in more. One proud dad moment is I always drop off my kids in the morning and there's always this one section of the route where it might be backed up on the soft side and right before we go to that, I always just ask both my kids, “hey, does your intuition? Do you think you stay on a right or should we take the shortcut?” whatever they say, I'm going to process and think about it, I just do what they say, because I want them to practice whether it's right or not, I want them to lean in on that. And now it's like, you know if we hit all of a sudden, this row hazard, my son's like, “Hey, my intuition is saying just make a left.” Really? Okay. I'm gonna doubt it. I just want to go with it. Because he's even using the word intuition.

I didn't use that until like, what, a couple of years ago. And he's using that when he's like, eight. It's just all guys, I just wish they're able to teach that more, that becomes more of a commonplace.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah, I'm definitely going to be doing that with my children now. I think it's so small and that's the thing, when we start getting into the weeds about this, it seems at the surface, like it's just so hard and complicated, and this is just another thing on my plate that I have to think about. And in fact, like your intuition is the plate, that actually is the plate.

And so if we take a moment to acknowledge and then empower kids, either your kids are the ones that we work with, that they have agency and are listening to themselves. That's really the secret sauce.

Ben Yeh:
100% mind boggles me why we got to this place where that's not commonplace. But at the same time, now that we have that awareness how do we just spread that light and that message more because like you said, having that agency to be able to know you have the ability to do so and tap in at any time you want is can be so free and powerful at the same time.

Jen Rafferty:
Yeah. And we know how we got here but that's another podcast episode. But yes, now that we know, we can't unknow and I really do believe that this is part of this idea. And I've said this and spoken about this with other guests on this podcast to this consciousness revolution, where we are actively discovering what's possible by raising our level of consciousness and unsubscribing to the default and the autopilot, in which we've lived our lives up until now and getting really clear about the stories that have the limitations that we place on ourselves.

So we can actively then say, is this story serving me right now, I'm getting triggered by this student, or by this parent or this boss right now? What's happening to me? What is going on and getting curious, and then curious again, and healing and growing and healing and growing. And what's so exciting about this to Ben is that we get to do this and the community that there are people like you and me and the incredible amount of people that are doing this work right now that are visible and active, and want to have this conversation, that's the stuff that really excites me.

Ben Yeh:
Okay, I love that we're using the same language literally, Jen, that's what really excited me to be on your show because of what you just described asking the question, why does it trigger me, and then just letting it be and see how the answers unfold for you? In one of my recent episodes on 37, leaving the light on, I went through the whole story of this ordeal and the trauma I went through, but then I didn't realize why it triggered me what autopilot that was installed in my subconscious. And so I'll just say, if you're curious about learning more about that, I really would recommend people to listen to episode 37.

Because it really dives into when you have an experience, especially if it's a negative experience, like a trauma, knowing or not knowing will create a belief system in that moment. And whether that serves you or not. You'll see how that unfolds. You get triggered later on in life. And you have the power to rewrite what that belief system is so that you don't get triggered anymore. But the question is, how,


Jen Rafferty:
How cool is that? And the question is how but that's why we do this in the community. This idea that something catastrophic needs to happen in order for you to go to therapy is ridiculous. We all need people to talk with so we can work through this stuff because that's part of just being human. And now more than ever, I think it's so important to find Your people in a safe place where you can talk about these things. So you can actually do this work. And it's wonderful.

So the link to that podcast episode, I'll make sure that we put it in the show notes too. So it'll be super easy for people to access. And so I do have a question for you, we talked about something tangible that people can kind of walk away with if they're listening right now, okay, Ben, you know, this sounds great. Yeah, Jen, we've heard this a million times from you, because we've been listening to your podcasts for so long. What should I do today? We know what can then tell us today about something that we can do to shift something in our lives.

Ben Yeh:
Totally. Thank you for asking that. So I have four simple steps and this is what I call my morning ritual. So when I start the day, after dropping off the kids, and then driving back, it's like, “Wait, how do I frame and set the intentions for today.” and what I want to accomplish so I broke it down into four simple steps.

The first step, step one is just calming your mind. As I mentioned early before about whether it is meditation is it going for a walk, what I created was a one-minute breathwork exercise where I'm just walking you through with the sound waves just breathe in and breathe out. If you breathe in, breathe in, you breathe out longer and actually activate your parasympathetic nervous system, which then really just keeps you at ease and it's just one minute to just calm yourself to breathe in and breathe out.

Step two is setting your intentions. Now, the statement that I want people to create is my intention for achieving X is Y because it makes me feel Z. My intention for achieving X is Y because it makes me feel Z. Now, why is this statement important is because if you don't know the Y of what you're doing, then going back to the whole hamster wheel, it feels like you're just doing the repetition, you don't understand the reasoning, the intention behind it.

So knowing the Y is an important step. But also knowing how it makes you feel. Now you're really starting to exercise that feeling and hopefully getting closer to the intuition muscle. So it's a simple statement, but it makes you think, " Well, what is my statement for today?” And when you say and you know, the feeling you want and what achieves it.

The third step is to pick a song that raises your vibration to the similar feeling of Z that you just said. So is it you want to feel more confident? Do you want higher energy? Do you want to feel more love and self-worth? Whatever it is actually created three different curated playlists for self-confidence for high energy or love and self-worth. So if you don't know a song, you can just be able to download that to see what it is that resonates with that feeling of Z that you just sent on a second step..

Then the fourth and final step, which is probably also the most important: the fourth and final step is making a declaration out loud. You just have to say, Jen, I am blank. What is that where you want to fill in? I am unstoppable, I am worthy, I am loved, whatever word comes into mind to make that declaration out loud. Why “I am” is so powerful, Jen, I stand for intentions, A stands for actions, and M stands for manifestation. When I put my intentions to what and back it up with the actions I take, I manifest myself. So by merely saying out loud if you are telling your body, I'm making a declaration. I'm taking action behind my intentions, then you want to further manifest what you want. And all of this just takes just six minutes.

It's a one-minute breath work to five minutes song. And then just saying I am. And it's really simple. But if you just do that, and frame yourself to raise that energy and vibration and the beginning of the day, gosh, imagine what the rest of the days gonna be like for you.

Jen Rafferty:
That is powerful. Thank you so much for sharing that it is so simple and it's something that's so easy to just incorporate throughout your day. And I'm so glad you incorporated the music piece too because it's funny, I just was listening to Pink's new album, Trustfall. And so I'm obsessed and that was actually my song the other day where I was just kind of feeling just, you know, meh I wasn't excited, I wasn't sad, or I was just going to meh. But I didn't want to feel meh because I wanted to go through my day and my meetings and my interactions with the people that I was going to with my kids, I'm in a different energy space.

So I put on Trustfall and rocked out a little bit and then that did the trick. And so it's really important to do those steps because it builds on one another. It's not just one thing, it's all the things.



Ben Yeh:
It helps reset your internal framing of what's going on internally, then that's going to set you up as a foundation of what is it that you want to externally build. It's so simple, they can just do it for themselves and it helps gives you that practice of being able to feel into more of what is it that I want to do because if I have a positive feeling associated to it association with it, then chances are I'm going to do it more.

The link I'll give you, which is /www.benjaminyeh.com/thankyou. I'll send you the link so you can have it in the show notes, your listeners can download the one-minute breath, work exercise, as well as the axis two to three created playlists for it. Just have to sign up for the Boom Vision community, and it's just there for you.

Jen Rafferty:
So thank you for sharing that with his audience. And I have to say, I can't believe it's already time. But before we go, I have to ask you the last question, which is, what is your dream for the future of education, Ben?

Ben Yeh:
What a great question. My dream, Jen, is when we can get to a place where the number of times we use the word logic, we also use the word energy. I firmly believe our world's gonna be in a better place. As much as we use the word logic and activate the logical mind for also understanding our soul energy, our thoughts, our words, or actions, money is just energy and I didn't understand it before. But the more I go deeper into this work, oh my goodness if we can associate energy as much as we associate logic, we're going to be in a better place.

Jen Rafferty:
Yes! And it's engaging conversations like this where you start to become familiar with the language and start to learn what it means to talk about energy and intuition and body and inner voice. And I'll tell you right now, once you go through that door, you're never gonna want to go back, it's a good door.

Ben Yeh:
And it's a great place to be.

Jen Rafferty:
It's a great place to be with the best people enlightened conscious humans. That's my jam.
I'm so glad that we connected as fellow conscious humans.

Ben Yeh:
Yes, I am so grateful, Jen, thank you so much for having me. And if your audience has any questions, or is curious I invite them to check out Boom Vision, because that's, that's what it's all about, too.

Jen Rafferty:
Fantastic. And I'll make sure all of those show notes for everything that we talked about in the podcast today is going to be right there. So it'd be super easy for you to access.

Ben, thank you so much for your time and your talents and for having this beautiful, heart-centered conversation with me today. And if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you subscribe and share it with a friend. And we'll see you next time take notes.

Incredible, right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at the Empowered Educator Faculty Room on Facebook.

As an empowered educator, how do you spend your time? Do you make wise decisions on what to prioritize in your life?
When it comes to living a productive life, knowing how and when you spend your time is important. The decision you make with your minutes defines how your day and week will look like.
Ultimately, putting yourself first should be your priority. And the good news is, you can do this by building a routine that honors your time as a teacher.
Welcome to episode 33 of Take Notes with Jen Rafferty podcast! Today, I’m joined by Laura Vanderkam. She is a notable writer, author, and speaker on topics surrounding work-life balance, time management, and productivity.
As you join us today, Laura will share tips and tricks you can use to optimize time management in your week. She also shares strategies that will help you get stuff done!
Are you ready to establish good habits that will make your life easier?
Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
 Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Laura:
Laura is the author of several time management and productivity books. Tranquility by Tuesday: 9 Ways to Calm the Chaos and Make Time for What Matters, which was published on October 11, 2022, shares strategies that have been proven to help busy people feel like life is more sustainable and joyful on normal days. Off the Clock: Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done (Portfolio, May 29, 2018), I Know How She Does It: How Successful Women Make the Most of Their Time (Portfolio, 2015), What the Most Successful People Do Before Breakfast (Portfolio, 2013), and 168 Hours: You Have More Time Than You Think (Portfolio, 2010).
Laura is also the author of a time management fable, Juliet’s School of Possibilities, published by Portfolio in early 2019. Another novel, The Cortlandt Boys, is available as an ebook.
Laura’s work has appeared in publications including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, City Journal, Fortune, and Fast Company.
She has appeared on numerous television programs, including The Today Show and CBS This Morning, hundreds of radio segments, and has spoken about time and productivity to audiences of all sizes. Her TED talk, “How to gain control of your free time,” has been viewed more than 12 million times. She is the co-host, with Sarah Hart-Unger, of the podcast Best of Both Worlds. She hosts the every-weekday-morning podcast Before Breakfast, featuring productivity tips designed to take listeners’ days from great to awesome.
 Connect with Laura:
Website: lauravanderkam.com
IG: @lvanderkam
FB: Laura Vanderkam

TRANSCRIPT: Sometimes it can feel as if time is just slipping away. Or maybe when you reflect on your past, you might wonder where all the time went. And sometimes the days feel really long and the years feel super fast. And this is why I invited TED speaker and author Laura Vander kam on the podcast today. In this enlightening conversation, we talked about why we need to be intentional with how we spend our time. So life doesn't just pass us by. This is a really important conversation for everyone. And while time may be a limited resource, you have more than you may realize, you just need to be paying attention. And like I always say change only happens within community. So if you're listening, it's time to join the Facebook group empowered educator faculty room, because if you enjoy this podcast, you'll love the Facebook group where you'll get live workshops, giveaways, insights, and where we can celebrate you throughout your empowered journey. You belong here in the Empowered educator, faculty room on Facebook. Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching. Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away. But it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to The Take notes Podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids. We need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy, and fulfillment. This is education 2.0, where you become the priority. Shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work, and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee, and grab your notebook. It's time to take notes. Hello, and welcome to another fabulous episode of take notes. I cannot wait to dive into this conversation with Laura Vander Kam, who is the author of several time management and productivity books, including the new tranquility by Tuesday nine ways to calm the chaos and make time for what matters most. Along with Juliette School of possibilities off the clock. I know how she does it, what the most successful people do before breakfast, and 168 hours. Her work has appeared in publications, including the New York Times The Wall Street Journal, Fast Company and fortune. And she is the host of the podcast before breakfast and the CO hosts with Sarah Hart Unger of the podcast best of both worlds. She lives outside Philadelphia with her husband and five children and blogs at Laura Vander kam.com. Laura, thank you so much for joining me in the tickets audience today. Thank you for having me, I'm excited to be here. So I would love to just dive in and talk about particularly time with teachers. Because I know for me, I didn't realize my relationship with time until I actually stepped away from the classroom. And time was very conflated with productivity. And it felt like every single minute needed to have something filled inside of it. And so, as people have these kinds of laundry list days, like teachers do, can you talk a little bit about how we can even approach our day, looking at it as kind of this laundry list thing, because that is not healthy?


Well, I mean, you know, we do have a lot we have to get done. So in that sense, that's understandable. But I think the thing that is so challenging with time is that it keeps passing, no matter what you do, right. And so you're gonna be on the other side of the school day, you're gonna be on the other side of this, we'll be on the other side of the school year, you know, soon enough, because of that, it can feel like you're just kind of constantly pushing along on this river, right? That it just keeps flowing. And there's nothing you can do about it, and you're trying to frantically get the things that you can done. And that's not going to change in the sense the river isn't going to change like it is gonna keep going. But we have to build in time into our lives to kind of stand outside the river for a little bit. And note the shape of it, how it's moving, how fast it's going in different place and a tricky spots, sort of broadly what the lay of the land looks like. And so it does come down to spending a little bit of time thinking about the time that is coming up ahead of us like what is actually important. What do I truly need to get through? What would make this look like a good week? What would make this look like a good day? How can I make sure those happen while still being open to opportunity and other moments as they arise? Yeah, and I think something you talked about is getting in touch with your future you and I imagine that part of understanding even what those answers to those questions are, what would a good day look like? What does a good week feel like? You would probably have to get in touch with that. So what does that process for you or how do you describe that in setting up, you're weak and really taking a look at those questions. How do you suggest people even approach those questions? Well, when you are doing sort of a weekly planning process, what I definitely recommend for everyone, I do this on Fridays, I know that may or may not work with people's teaching schedules. But if you do have a little bit of time on, say, Friday, first thing in the morning or later in the day, or something like that, but some time where you sit and look at the upcoming week, and ask yourself what is most important to me professionally, in the upcoming week, right? So what would make this look like a good week at school? Personally, what would make this look like a good week, within the categories of like my relationships? What would make this feel like I really hit it out of the park in terms of my relationships over the next week, and then personally, what is most important to me personally, over the next week, and then you look at your calendar, and you figure out well, Where can those things go? Where would those priorities fit within my week as it exists? Then we look at what you have to do, what is already on your calendar, what are the things that you are committed to over the next week, you get yourself a rough idea of how you're going to tackle those things, you then think about what you are most looking forward to over the next week, making sure there are some things that make life feel doable and joyful over the next week. And then you know, you've solved any logistical problems. You see if there's anything that you don't want to do that's on your calendar for the next week, if that can possibly go. So we're focused on what are truly the most important things. But having that little bit of time to ponder those top level priorities beyond just sort of like, okay, we're going through unit 3.2. Right. It's a gift you can give your future self. Yeah, well, I've been reading your work for a long time. And something that has really resonated with me that I continue to share all the time, it's whenever we say I don't have the time, what you're really saying is that it's not a priority. And that really resonates with me to my core, because you hear that all the time, especially with in the education space, it's like, well, we'd love to do all these things, but I don't have the time. And that's just simply not true. Because at least from the way that you're just describing it as if you kind of carve out some space to even make those priorities you can actually apply for everything you want. I do believe we have more time than we think. And yeah, the language that I don't have time really means it's not a priority is that sounds a little harsh. But if people think about it, it's probably true. Like whatever you're telling yourself, I don't have time for like if somebody offered to give you have $100,000 to do it, like, you know, it might right, why is the priority list pretty quickly, right? Like, Oh, guess I found time after all right? So it wasn't a matter of lacking time, it's that you didn't want to do it within the context of your life as it currently is. Or if you think about things, this happens in larger groups to have, you know, you think about your school or your district or whatever, whatever you're saying, you don't have time to do that we can't focus on right now. Like if your district got some huge many, many millions of dollars of grants to do whatever that thing is, people might suddenly decide it's a priority, right? Like, you know, again, it's it could rise up the list under the right circumstances, what we're saying is that right now, given what my life looks like, it is not a priority. And I think it's important that we own that truth, because that's part of taking control of Time, time is not just happening to us, we don't have to just, you know, blindly float down this river, even though it does keep moving, we have some degree of control over how we direct ourselves down if we're strategic. Well, and that agency is so important for you to realize because again, that you're not letting life happen to you, you're co creating and designing what kind of life you want to make it work for you in this way. And so getting really honest about those questions can be really confronting, it can Yeah, and I think to be fair, here, obviously, there's people have very different tough circumstances and all that we can come up with various ways that this may not be the case. And you know, all that, like, yes, there truly may not work with whatever. But just because not everything in the universe is under our control, doesn't mean nothing is right. And and I think people can talk themselves into these corners about it like, well, I can't change x, y, or z. Therefore, oh, well throw up my hands. What can I do except keep floating along? But you know, we don't have to accept those say, Well, what are the parts of my life that I can't have control over? And then think about your priorities within that. That's why I really love this latest book that you wrote is because it's so concrete. And it's so laid out so beautifully, not just with the reason why behind all of the rules, but the practical applications and I love really love how you address the objections right away. So when someone's like, Well, I really can't do that you're like, actually, this is people have said this, and this is kind of how he navigated through that. And then there was obviously these beautiful places for accountability and action steps. So I would really love to kind of go through some of the not all of them, but I would like to go through some of these rules because I think this is really great information for the listeners to know and it ties into what you're saying here about getting really honest with yourself about what you consider


To be a priority or not with your time within reasonable circumstances, of course, but something like sleep, right, this idea of giving yourself a bedtime that you say is rule number one. So often it's like, well, sleep becomes the last priority. And you put that as rule one, the first thing that we need to do so can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. So I mean, just a backup tranquillity by Tuesday is about nine of my favorite time management rules that I really think are broadly applicable. I mean, just about everyone could get some benefit from using these rules in their lives. And the first rule, the first of the nine, is to give yourself a bedtime. And people like what that's rule number one like that, you know, I thought I was gonna be something more interesting than that. I had 150. People try out these rules over the course of nine weeks to see if they really worked, right. And many of the challenges that they talked about, or then I could address in the book. And so this is how real people interacted with these rules. And not just in my head, how I thought they would work, but they work for real people. And as one person put it, this was the least sexy, but the most impactful rule, like I don't think there's anyone who doesn't know that, like, Oh, yes, sleep is generally a good thing. It would behoove me to get an adequate amount of sleep. But I think what a lot of us do, is we skipped during the week, teachers often have to be up very early, whether you have your kids that you got to read, ready for school, you know, you then have to start school as well, often extremely early times. And then you know, there's a million things you could be doing later at night, right? It's like, oh, that's the time I could grade my papers. That's the time I could actually relax and enjoy myself. Once my kids are in bed, I've done my chores, you know, now I can watch TV. And I don't want to stop that to go to bed. And so we might have skipping during the week, which then makes us more and more crabby as the week goes on. And then you binge on sleep on the weekend, if at all possible people crash on Friday night, or they sleep in on Saturday and Sunday morning. Or sometimes it even happens earlier that people fall asleep on the couch on Wednesday night or sleep through their alarm on Thursday morning, or whatever else it is that happens. That's your body saying okay, well, we need a certain amount of sleep. And we're going to try to get it over the course of a week or two. But what we're going to wind up doing is substituting sleep for other activities that you might want to do. So you don't actually save time, by skipping during the week, you're just pushing the sleep forward in a way that really messes with your energy levels and your ability to do anything. So it's so much better to get the amount of sleep you need every single night. It is not rocket science, if you need to wake up at 6am. And you need eight hours of sleep, that your bedtime is 10pm. If you need seven hours of sleep, your bedtime is 11pm like seven and a half, it's 1030. Right? Again, it's just math count back, all good. But if you do this, and don't move it by more than an hour or so on weekends, it is completely transformative. Like there is nothing like waking up two minutes before your alarm in the morning. Because this is actually how much sleep you need. And you're done. You're ready, you're ready for the day. It's just really quite magical, actually. Yeah, that sounds great. And your face is lighting up when you're talking about this. Because I can tell you are reaping the benefits of it yourself. As even this idea of just waking up two minutes before your alarm, I can maybe count the times that's happened on one hand and still have fingers leftover. But you're right. And I do want to address to like you said, you know, we kind of have this thing where it's like we need to steal time almost at the end of the day, I read something on NPR recently, it was an article that popped up about like the scrolling that we do before bed. It's kind of like getting the time back that we feel like we missed out on during the day like for us. So we get it right before we go to bed but that bedtime is sacred. Yeah, I mean, you know you're an adult, if you have a really good reason to stay up. Like we've got concert tickets to some hot act, I go for it, right. Like if you've got a good reason to be up late, but scrolling around, not necessarily. I mean, that stuff's all going to still be there tomorrow, like Facebook will still be there, if you would like to go peruse it later. And it's also like, how many people don't look at it at all during the day and only get that time at night. Basically, you're just adding to the amount of time you spent on it. And it's not very high quality me time anyway. Like, I want people to have lots of me time in their life. I want them to feel that they have lots of time for themselves, so that they don't have to stay up late in order to get that low quality version of it. Yeah, and it is it is totally low quality. Me Time. It's like zone out zombie.


Sometimes right and especially right before bed. And that actually kind of ties into something that I wanted to ask you about with rule nine which is effortful before effortless. And this idea of changing your relationship with leisure. This is something I think ties into a whole lot of things you talked about throughout the book of of prioritizing yourself in a different kind of way. And looking at the things that bring us joy and maybe are healthy for us like sleep like spending time with our family like going on adventures, which is something else we can talk about later. Really adjusting your relationship with those things. Yeah, and it's interesting the stories we tell ourselves a lot of people say like I have no time for myself, right like I have no time I have no free time whatsoever. That's something people


We'll say, it is not true, whoever you are, it isn't true. And one of the first things I have people do is track their time for a week, I have not met anyone who does not have some discretionary time in their life. Usually what we mean when we say I have no free time whatsoever, is that I don't have as much free time as I want. But that is a very different story from None, right, like, so let's not conflate those two stories. And often, it turns out people actually have a reasonably large amount of leisure time. The problem is that it is often short in duration, it is unexpected. So you can't necessarily plan for it. Or it comes at low energy times, like at night after you've done your chores, or the kids have gone to bed. So those three things conspire to make you first reach for screen time, right? If you have maybe two minutes of free time, maybe you have 20 minutes, you don't know you're waiting for the carpool to bring your kids home from soccer or something like that, or a parent is supposed to call you and they haven't yet right. Like maybe you have two minutes, maybe they're gonna call Tennant. Who knows? Right? So you have some time, but you can't really predict. And so that's why it was like, Well, Facebook is fine for two minutes, or 10 minutes or two hours or whatever, it doesn't matter, right? Like you don't have to choose the time in advance. You don't know you're gonna have it right. So if something happens, and you wind up with 30 minutes that you weren't counting on, like, you can't give it that you're counting on it. It's hard to say like, oh, well, I'm gonna do this wonderful, high quality thing during my 30 minutes. And then of course, late at night, people are just tired. So it's not like you're going to, I don't know, go run a marathon then. So all those things conspire to make screens very easy. And so people look at their screen time tallies. Like if you have an iPhone, it'll tell you what it is. And I'll say something like three hours a day and people are like, no, no, no. I am not on reading headlines and on social media, whatever three hours a day is it well as not wanting like there wasn't somebody else on your phone. It's just that it comes in these chunks that are uncertain. But you know, you didn't plan for that you don't have an energy. And that's we did. So sorry. That was a long winded way of getting to this effortful before effortless is to challenge yourself to do just a tiny bit of effort full fun before you reach for your screens. Anytime a spot of potential leisure time appears. So you need to think through what that would be. For a lot of people it might be reading ebooks. Like if you have an ebook on your phone, you can read that just as easily as you can scroll through headlines or anything else. And you have those on there. Like it's not ideal. I prefer paper books too. But but let's be realistic here like you don't carry around a book with you all the time and you do have your phone so you're stuck in the parking lot waiting for somebody, you pull out the phone, instead of going to Instagram, start reading your ebook. And again, you don't have to do it forever. The thing with this habit is just challenge yourself to do it for two minutes. And then you can go on Instagram for as long as you want. Right go watch tick tock dances till you know the person actually shows up. But by challenge yourself to do the effortful fun first, one of two things will happen. One you might get so into your book, or whatever other form of effortful fun Yondu, puzzles, you want to do crafts, whatever you might get so into it that you just keep going and you never wind up switching over the screen time. But even if you stop after two minutes, at least you will have gotten to do both. And because that effortful fun, we're more aware of it like that it happened. Like you can stop telling yourself the story that I don't have any time like it's, it's impossible to say like, oh, I don't have any time when you got through like 80 pages in your ebook in the course of the day just through these little chunks of time, like, oh, yeah, well, I read this book today, you know, we're more aware of it. And so the time feels like it actually exists. And so then we can honor it. And note that we do have some time for the things that we want to do. And again, I'm hearing you say more agency, you know, we have all of this agency at our fingertips of how we choose to spend our time. We're just often, like you said, also stuck in these narratives. So we make the same choices that don't actually serve us. Exactly. Yeah, it's not rejuvenating to do most passive leisure. When you choose active leisure for even just a few minutes, then it is usually rejuvenating, and you notice it happening. And so then you stop telling yourself the story of having no free time whatsoever. Right? Because you broke the habit. You broke the habit. Yeah, which is awesome. So another rule I wanted to talk about which I mean, they all tie in so beautifully together. But this idea of taking one night for yourself. And especially as you know you are a mom of five which I think is so important to point out again here because a lot of folks that I observe in my world who feel this guilt about taking any time for themselves but like let alone sleep or effort for fun or any of these things. There's this guilt factor that comes with it that I'm not doing what I'm quote supposed to be doing as my role as a mom or as a teacher or as a partner and I'm doing this thing for myself. So can you talk about how important it is to actually take this night for yourself and how to navigate some of that guilt. Well, part of this is about switching up your leisure time to I mean, as I said


If people do take time for themselves, they are sitting there scrolling around on Instagram while their kids are playing like that you are taking time for yourself, what I'm saying is to actually use some of that time to do something that is a little bit more valuable. And the idea of taking one night a week for you is to do a couple of hours each week, something that is not work, it is not caring for family members, it is something that is interesting just for you, right that you find intrinsically enjoyable. And ideally, you make a commitment to something go something that meets at the same time every week. And the reason for that is that then you'll do it. Right. Like, you know, if you're like, Well, I'm just gonna take more bubble baths, well, you know, then your kid wants you to drive them to the mall, you're like you don't want my bathtub isn't going anywhere, right? So you, you wind up doing it. Whereas if you are singing in a choir, which is what I do, you're expected to be there on Thursday night at seven o'clock, and your voice part is counting on you. And so you go, like you go, even if you're tired, you go, even if you're busy, you go even if maybe in the abstract, somebody would prefer you do something else, because that's the commitment you've made. And so then because it happens, you reap the benefits of this more active form of self care. As for the guilt, I would encourage anyone who even has some thought of this to one track your time, I would suggest that if you are a parent of children who are living in your house, you probably see them a lot.


I mean, there are a lot of hours in the week, there are 168 hours in a week, you know, if you are at your school for I don't know, 45 of them, if you are sleeping for 56 of them, I'm doing the math here that comes out to 67 other hours, likely you are seeing your family for a big chunk of them already. So would it be tragic for you to take two to three hours away from that 67? To do something else? Well, no, probably everyone will be okay. And I like to point out like, if you are co parenting with someone, this is actually a great opportunity for you guys to trade off, right that each parent can take one night off, and you know, then you do your thing that you want to do your partner takes the kids on that night, and then you cover for that person for for a night. So you each have the opportunity to both do something that's cool for you and have a little bit more of that focus time with your kids. While your partner isn't there it can be it can be really good for everyone. And that's a nice model for your kids to for them to see their parents actually doing things for themselves. Yeah, I love kids too. But I don't think it's a great idea for anyone to have the idea that they are the absolute center of the universe for everyone.


You know, you can be very important in people's lives and still not be the only thing in somebody's lives. Yeah. And that is really important, again, to just kind of shift the narrative a little bit of what could this look like for me in my life and executing this one night a week League? What could that be like for my family? And I'm not sure why it would make anyone feel guilty to have the kids hang out with dad or mom or whatever, for one night a week without you like, Yeah, let's change that narrative. We're done with that. Yeah,


that's over now. So I want to go back to this idea of Rule Four, where you say, you know, three times a week as a habit and this idea of because you just mentioned 168 hours in a week, not looking at the 24 hour day, and instead looking at the whole week, and when I first came to your work and you know, read 168 hours, that was something that was mind blowing. To me, it was like, Oh, my gosh, look at all of this extra time I have all of a sudden it was a real game changer. So can you share a little bit about that strategy? Well, the first thing is to think of life in terms of a week instead of a day. And then people often get frustrated, because there isn't time for everything they want to do in a day. And I agree there isn't but we don't live our lives in days, we live our lives in weeks. And when you look at the whole of the week, you see just how much space we have, you know, right? We just went through those numbers of you know, if you're working 45, and sleeping 56, you got 67 hours for other things. So then it's a question of how you're allocating those, for instance. But it's also that things don't happen to happen daily. And they don't have to happen at the same time every day, in order to count in our lives. And I think some parts of education, this is actually pretty intuitive, right? Like, you might say that, you know, if you're teaching elementary school, like music and art are important, but your kids don't go to them every single day, right? Like, you know, you have like maybe twice a week you do this or twice a week you do that. And it's still part of the curriculum. It's just not you're not doing it every single day. I think some high school schedules, for instance, have a thing where many of the classes are like four times a week, and it alternates of how it goes. And so you can fit in a little bit more electives and different forms of curriculum in that. And in many ways, that makes sense, right? Because you're saying it doesn't have to happen every single day. Anything that happens three times a week is happening regularly in your life. You know, we could we could argue about what is the exact number but I like three. I think if something is happening three times a week, that's pretty frequent, right? Like it's not like a random occurrence. And the upside of thinking of it this way is many


times when people think about the things they would like to have more often in their lives, they're already doing it some, they're not doing it never. They're just doing it not as much as they want. So maybe it's something like family meals, you're like, Oh, we never eat together. And then you know, if you take an honest look at your time, like, actually, you know, we probably swing one night a week, that's not nothing. That is very far from nothing, in fact, so the question is, well, could you get to three family meals a week, all you got to do is add to find two times when everyone is around at some point in the rest of those 168 hours. And just like that, you are a family that eats together, right? If you want to practice the piano, yeah, it's not gonna fit every single day in your life. If you have this idea of, you know, it's gonna be like when you were, I don't know, studying piano seriously, when you were 12. And somebody made you practice for an hour every day after school? Like, no, that's probably not happening in your life now, but could you find 20 minutes, three times a week to play like when you you know, if you have a little bit of time before some kids get home from activities, maybe you do it, then maybe you do it like some point on the weekend, whatever, it's it 20 minutes, three times a week is literally one hour, one hour out of that 168 hours, but it is a regular part of your life. And he's going to start feeling like music is a regular part of your life, if you do sit down and practice three times. Yeah, and thank you for using the music example. I fully appreciate that.


And you know, I think sometimes again, giving into the narrative or the I'm gonna use the word excuses of the zero sum game where as you just said, it's like, well, we never eat dinner together. Well, but if you really actually took a look at it, you do and it's not all or nothing. There is this beautiful wiggle room within that 168 hours for growth if you've made it a priority. Absolutely, yeah. When I had people do this as part of the tranquility by Tuesday project, I thought about what what they wanted to do more of their and their lives and had them think back of when they did this last. I mean, it's well over 80% of people had in fact done it in the last month. So it wasn't never it was just again, not as much as I want. And so we're just talking about scaling things up small tweaks rather than total lifestyle overhauls. Yeah, for sure. And I want to ask you to COVID for everybody really changed the way that we looked at things like family dinners, like leisure time, like I think even sleep. And so I want to know, have the lessons that we might have learned in COVID? Have they lasted? Are they still sustaining a bit now that we're kind of moving back into this old new space? Well, it's funny, I don't know if anyone learned any lessons about anything. I mean, you know, there are time diary studies that are done broadly, like the American Time Use Survey looks at 1000s of Americans asking them to recount yesterday, hour by hour are going through the entire day. This does rolling over all the days of the year. So you get a very broad perspective of how people spend their time. And so they could compare, say, 19, I mean, 2019 with 2020, how people were spending their time. And they're like, over the whole population, I think was something like people were spending 26 fewer minutes traveling, again, if you think about the entire population, how varied everyone is, that's a big drop, right? But, you know, what did that get allocated to? Well, people slept a little bit more, and they watched more TV.


So those were the two things that were taking pretty much that entire time over the whole populations. It's not like everyone suddenly discovered exercise or gardening or creative pursuits or spending more time with loved ones. We watched more TV. And then because we didn't have to wake up quite as early to commute in many cases, you know, or, in many cases, people were furloughed for a while. So they weren't, you know, for those who had to go into a workplace or otherwise couldn't work. They weren't working for a big chunk of time. And so they were sleeping more, because that's what you do. Yeah. So again, it's, I don't know, there's a fun narrative of like, oh, well, we were all going to spend our time differently as a result. It's just not I don't think it's really true. I do think that for people, it's certain segments of life, there was a question of moving from your leisure time from passively kind of spending it to like you had all this time with no outside choices, right? There weren't your usual things that weren't your usual commitments, it wasn't an option to go to many places. And so people were actively coming up with ways to Spend leisure time, as opposed to just passively spending it so that, you know, it's thinking about Legos, and aren't projects and puzzles, and baking bread and all those things. So that's what led to that kind of interest in that. But of course, it is the rare person who couldn't make a loaf of bread in their life now if they wanted to, right. It's a rare person who couldn't do a Lego set now if they wanted to. I think a lot of people don't because again, all the other options are there. And so you know, you worry that you're missing out on something and so when leisure time does appear, what do we do? Well, whatever's right in front of us, but you know, if we're


You heard about it, we could certainly come up with other things to do. Yeah. Okay, that gives me a little bit of hope.


It's such an interesting thing to look at. And I'm curious still to see the research as it comes out about things like that. But that I think is telling, you know, when you pulled up a mirror, especially like that, I think I'm almost hesitant to say it, but even hearing those results, show us maybe where our priorities are. Time is hard to spend well, and you know, I guess a lot of people in life have said things like, Oh, well, I would exercise if only I didn't have this commute. Well, did you? I don't know. Maybe not, you know, some people did not good. But, you know, again, time does not magically spend itself on high priority things. We have to make an active choice to do that. Yeah. And then effort. And something also you had in your book, it was a quote underneath where it said, rule six, it says, we don't ask, where did the time go? When we remember where the time went? I love that so much. Because again, I think even just reading your books, being present, has been really a priority for me, because with my own kids, you know, it's ever Oh, it goes so fast. It goes by so fast. I actually don't feel that. I don't feel that it's going by so fast. Prioritizing being here, right now. I know exactly where my time is. And I'm really careful with how I dish out my time, who gets my time how often they get my time. I don't actually wonder where it went. And so when I read that, I was like, Wow, I love that I hadn't thought about it that way. Can you share a little bit more about that? And how you personally experienced time? Yeah, well, I've been tracking my time for eight years now, basically, and half hour chunks. That sounds terrible. But like check in three to three times a day roughly, takes me about a minute each time write down what I've done. So it Well, listen, we need people like you to do this to write the thing so we can do the learning. So yeah, well, so I mean, I can look up how I've spent any half hour the last eight years. And the interesting thing is that because of that I can actually call a lot of those memories back pretty quickly. Like I pulled out a random week from December of 2016. You know, I saw that I made a trip to Boston. And I was like, Okay, I remember that trip. And then I was like looking at what I had been doing in the hotel as I go. And I even can picture that hotel Starbucks that I was waiting for 30 minutes to get my room or wherever. And I was working there and picture myself sitting at that table and what it looked like in the lobby, and that's still there. It's funny. And when things are still there than the past doesn't feel like this giant wash, it feels like it happened. But the point of that chapter is actually I think a good one. It's one of my favorites if I'm allowed to have favorite rules, but that we have one big adventure and one little adventure each week. And so much of adult life can become very routine. And there's nothing wrong with routines routines are great. Like, you know, teachers who have good routines probably get more good work out of their students, because everyone knows what to expect. And they can have an orderly classroom. But when too much routine stacks up whole years just sort of disappear into these memories. Sinkholes where you know, day or no week is distinguishable from any other. And one way to combat that is to plan in one big adventure and one little adventure each week. So a big adventure could be like three to four hours half a weekend day, a little adventure can be less than an hour. So you could do it on a weekday evening, even just as long as it is something out of the ordinary. And again, we're only talking two adventures a week. This is not enough to exhaust or bankrupt anyone. But it is enough to make it feel slightly different. Like oh, that week wasn't the same as any other that was like Well, that's the week that we tried that new gelato place that just opened for summer, right? That's the week that we went hiking in that state park that we've, you know, lived an hour away from for six years and haven't visited yet. Those are things that would make the week feel different, feel more memorable. And when time is memorable, then we remember it. And we don't ask where did the time go? When we remember where the time went? Yeah, and it doesn't have to be expensive, or or Nate's it's just changing. I mean, your brain seeks out novelty, your brain needs novelty. And that is really a such a simple way to add that novelty throughout your week. It's fantastic. So as we're kind of closing up the interview, I need to ask the question that I asked everybody and from your perspective in the work that you do, what is your dream for the future of education, I always hope that kids will feel that their time is being used well. And I think that unfortunately, there can feel a lot of if sometimes in school, like kids aren't using their time well either that they don't understand stuff. And so it's hard. It's you know, they feel disengaged from things or else it's too easy, you know, and they're not paying attention then because it's they're just passing the time because they've already learned it in the first little bit of the class and now you have to get through the rest of the class and so they're bored and you know that


feeling of like having to be there for a certain number of hours, but not feeling like this stuff filled those hours is, you know, it's kind of a waste. And yeah, I mean, kids need to learn. But I wish there was some way to make sure that people were kind of challenged to the extent of their capabilities and felt like they were using that time all really well, because they were constantly learning. I don't know exactly what that looks like, I'm sure it could look lots of different ways. But from a time perspective, that's something that always comes to mind for me. I love that. Well, you know, the idea of that question is always, you know, when we say our dreams out loud, I think we're just closer to making them a reality, whatever that ends up looking like. So thank you so much for your time. And please, can you share where people can get to know more about you, all of the links that you'll you'll share right now are going to be at the bottom of the show notes. But I'd love for you. For the folks who are just listening who don't have access to it safely. Rebel? How can they find more about you? Yeah, you can come visit my website, which is Laura Vander cam.com. That's just my name. And there you can learn more about tranquillity by Tuesday, which is my most recent book and all the other ones I've written. And you can get information about my two podcasts before breakfast is a short every weekday morning tip, help take your day from great to awesome. So you know, you could listen to it while you're putting on your makeup or you know, making your coffee or whatever it is you do in the morning. It won't take much time, five minutes, but hopefully give you something for the day. And best of both worlds is a podcast I do with my friend Sarah, we look at issues of work and family from the perspective of people who truly enjoy both awesome, yes, and all of those links will be there. Please, if you're listening, make sure that you grab Laura's latest book, it is fantastic. And definitely share it with a friend and then let me know and let her know what you think and how it's working for you in your life. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you sharing your expertise and for giving us your time. Thank you so much for having me. And if you love today's episode, please make sure you write a great review. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode of take notes. And we'll see you next time. Incredible right? Together we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at empowered educator faculty room on Facebook.

As empowered educators, we understand our students need a classroom culture where they can express themselves, honor others, and celebrate differences.
But how do you create a safe space for diversity in the classroom?
Welcome to episode 30 of Take Notes with Jen Rafferty podcast! Today, I’m joined by Dr. Nia Nunn who is a teacher, scholar, and diversity, equity & inclusion (DEI) consultant for schools, universities, and organizations.
In this episode, Dr. Nia talks about radical vulnerability and how it can transform the dynamics of the community. She also shares that by tapping into creative spaces that are freeing and allow us to express ourselves creatively, we can be role models for our students.
Today is all about learning, unlearning and unpacking our differences to make a difference!
Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
 Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty Room

About Dr. Nia:
Dr. Nia Nunn is a community leader wearing multiple head-wraps as a mother, artist, professor, board president, program developer, public speaker, and activist. Her work is rooted in creating an innovative Black consciousness curriculum, and centers on anti-racist and abolitionist framework with a performance arts delivery. She is committed to learning and engaging audiences creatively, intensely, and gracefully.

Connect with Dr. Nia:
Website: www.drnianunn.com
IG: @drnianunn

TRANSCRIPT:  I am so excited to share this conversation with you. I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Nia nun about radical vulnerability and how it can transform the dynamics of a community. I was completely enamored, by the way she spoke about learning, unlearning, and unpacking our biases to create inclusive spaces where everyone is seen, is heard is honored and celebrated. I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. And change only happens within community. So if you're listening, it's time to join the Facebook group, empowered educator faculty room. Because if you like this podcast, you'll love the Facebook group where you'll get live workshops with me giveaways, insights and where we can celebrate you throughout your Empower journey. You belong here and the Empowered educator, faculty room on Facebook. Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching. Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away. But it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to The Take notes Podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids. We need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy, and fulfillment. This is education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work, and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee, and grab your notebook. It's time to take notes. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another fantastic episode of take notes. today. I'm so excited to introduce my guest. This is Dr. Nia nun and she is a community leader wearing multiple head wraps as a mother, artist, Professor, board president, program developer, public speaker and activist. Her work is rooted in creating an innovative black consciousness curriculum and centers on anti racist and abolitionist framework delivered through the performance arts. She is committed to learning and engaging audiences creatively, intensely. And gracefully. Thank you so much for being here.


Yes, thank you for the invitation. What a joy to have this conversation with you.


I am so excited to just dive right in. So can we talk first about something that you shared with me in our conversations prior about your idea of radical vulnerability? I love that phrase just


hanging out, right?


Oh, it's so juicy. What is it? What does it mean?


Yes, I mean, ultimately, we're talking about growing to a space of the most Liberated Learning selves, right. And what I'm doing is I'm inviting people on a journey that I call collective self study. So there's just engaging folks in reflecting on some of our histories, some of our roots, what we were taught, how young can you go, and then spending time with that, and unpacking, unlearning, but also just naming some of the joys around education and what it takes to create Liberated Learning Experiences. So the radical vulnerability workshops that I offer, I just help communities celebrate and honor who they are, but also do intentional and confronting work to strengthen the dynamics of their communities. So it's confronting, um, but a joy and a shift that often occurs when we engage in the work for sure.


And so can we talk a little bit about that confronting nature of being vulnerable, because I think this is something people shy away from this idea of vulnerability. I think a lot of people know, deep down that this is where the yummy, juicy growing expensive changes happen. But that can be not just confronting, but also really painful, which then serves as an obstacle to even go there. So can you talk us through kind of how do you work through some of that?


Yeah, I mean, in listening and learning about your work, there's so much alignment, right like to talk about the the importance of educators and self care. And the specific element of radical vulnerability is this self study. So some of the key questions are like, who am I? Where am I from, and then reflecting on your people, but collective arts, both our individual and our collective identity, but in it, it is like taking the time to reflect on who am I bringing into the spaces that I enter, you go in and decide that you're teaching a population of people whoever that A population may be no prior to any of that, who are you bringing into the space and spending some time with that. And I think that there's multiple layers that come, it interferes with the other thing that happened, no, bring your other with you. Right. So just being able to zap in. And so I have folks, reflecting on even just characteristics represent who you actually are, who you actually see yourself to be. And then characteristics that represent like your ideal self. So I use this exercise and play around with these words to help people create poems. So that's the interweaving component on all of my multiple headwraps is poetry. But that's also a confronting dynamic, right? Like, not everybody sees themselves as a poet, even though I believe that everybody is, in fact, a poet, and see the poetry in everything. So we get to spend some time with discomfort. There's some breathing exercises that I do to start the work. But I also invite people to do a lot of writing a lot of writing, why, because there's so much power on going back to those written thoughts and feelings and being able to analyze them with love and self compassion. And so these are the exercises that lend to like the naming of the self. And naming the individual self are characteristics, I'm joyful, I'm energetic, I might bust out with a cartwheel, because that's just my personality, as an individual, and spending time with our collective identities. Right. And in particularly on sight, I am, in fact, a black woman. And that is such a significant part of who I am and who I'm bringing into every space that I enter. So I encourage, and then there's some exploration around Okay, so what does that mean? Or how was I released? And what does that mean, you know, and how do you navigate that in society. And so it's just the encouraging and inviting, and offering tools to help people name, that combined reality, we're bringing our individual and our collective selves, everywhere that we go, and all of that prior to teaching anybody anything,


right, there's a couple things I really want to talk about. First of all, I just have to say, of course, you know, as a music teacher, as well, this is the place where creative spaces are, this is why it's so important. Because we're able to tap into some of these really confronting places in a way that's freeing and creatively expressing what it is we're trying to communicate, even if it's just with ourselves, right? When I'm talking about performance, we're talking about art for expression and art for reflection. So I really just want to highlight and underscore that piece of it because it is so important.


Absolutely. And the life that it gives us. Right? When we feel safe and liberated, to learn or create. That's when we have that foundational work that may be intense to confront, but to just be able to really, really connect with that true that true joy that you speak of. Yeah, who are we? Who are we bringing with us so much healing involved in it too, without even knowing that there's some healing in terms of the relationship that we have with ourselves? Didn't you know this? So many people grown ups? They don't like themselves? And you can


tell? Yes, you can tell it starts unfortunately, when we're little. And we don't realize and so logically, we can be like, of course, I love myself. But do you love yourself enough to take a bathroom break in the middle of the day? Do you love yourself to get your body moving? Do you love yourself enough to make sure that you are fostering close friendships in your life? Do you love yourself enough to look at these confronting issues and limiting beliefs that you have so you can heal so you can grow? Do you love yourself that much? And you're totally right, I think this idea of love yourself, it's thrown around. But unless you do this work, you don't really even understand what that even means,


right? That time, that attention to reflecting on who we are, and some of the roots of even how we were raised and Baba is like is so nurturing and reconnects us to that sense of love and the love that we then we can bring into learning because otherwise, and young people they can tell, they can tell whether we're not in love with the practice, particularly of teaching, they can tell. But if we're not bringing our full loved selves, it makes a difference.


You know, with that comes this safety. And I want to talk about the safety piece of this, because this idea of what you're bringing to this space is not about how to teach this to kids. And I think this is also really, really important. Oftentimes we have these initiatives or these ideas and it's all projected to the kids in the classroom, but they're not working. They don't work or they're not as effective as they could be. Unless the kids instructors themselves are embracing and embodying the work. We can't possibly give a lesson about community and empathy and collective understanding, if we ourselves don't even know who we are, it just, there's such a disconnect. And so can we talk a little bit about how you create safe spaces, or how you teach others to create safe spaces?


Absolutely. I am very transparent in my teaching, actually, in a beautifully corny way, about like, pausing to talk about what just happened. And so at the heartbeat of all of it is feeling and believing that we have the capacity to create classroom culture, as a collective, though to right not just as the facilitator, as the leader as the individual in charge of the teaching, but creating classroom culture, and being able to name that because children young people do it all the time, when they enter certain spaces. It's like, boom, when I entered this space, the list goes on about what it means what it feels like. And so I think there's a lot of beauty when teachers when we are intentional about and transparent about the ways in which we are creating classroom culture, how we speak with each other, who speaks when how that you know, honoring and using each other's I get so excited in my classes, when the students start using each other's names, as they're reflecting on a conversation and concept of what just happened. I'm telling them in the moment, look, what we did. This is representative of who we are as a classroom culture. And sometimes it can be things that are just so simple, but honoring that collectivity. Right, the we associated with it, that is that the heartbeat, the root of the safety, right, you know all about it, when the student, there's a substitute, for example, and the students are the ones that layer in here, this is what we do. And this the you know, and so on, so need to break, and so and so has speech and bubble, you know, where there's this community, this culture, this collectivity, versus emphasis on a hierarchy, or an emphasis on solely on individuality, which is the foundation of the culture across the board. And that's what I'm offering that is in my teaching and teaching training, but this radical vulnerability concept that may be an additional sort of unique that said, explicit element, the Wii,


yes, that is huge. And as you were talking about that I was getting a little for clubs over here, because we do get so far away from the collective of connecting to each other, on just a level of commonality just because of our humanity, that everything becomes so individualized and separate. And when we become so separated, we lose a piece of our humanity,


then that I would share that there's a beautiful combination, worth acknowledging, right? So there's yes, there's the honoring the uniqueness or individuality like we've talked about. And then I would say that there's a lot of power and transformation that happens when we also honor the some of the specificity of our collective identities, right. So our grouping our collective experiences, so I have students write for my people, poems, right, you can look them up there, because those are the best, right that for my, who I am, I am poems where I'm from, and for my people, poems, and there are many students that will, this is a beautiful link to just exploring the multiple labels, right? That we're either assigned, or that we assign ourselves. And then the reality of our social experiences, by race, by gender, by religion, all of these real live identity markers that impact our daily lives. And so having space and tools, to honor the specificity of our collective experiences, I think, is something that may also be a novel and unique element of radical vulnerability. So I'm inviting people. And this is sort of a segue into being explicit about the black consciousness work of this, right. I invite people to one Listen, as I do a little storytelling, right? And navigating, like, whoa, hearing me tell some of the story of my upbringing, my roots, right as a young black girl being raised in a predominantly white space by two very pro black people who could put the energy into making sure they said okay, we're gonna raise her here in this predominantly whitespace and all of the things that come with it, we need to make sure she loves being black, and that she knows that she's smart or that she knows that she's been so I teach about some of the intentional entered G that my parents put into in the parenting. I think I had the wiz memorize before I even knew there was Wizard of Oz like this was intentional. They're like, you will see yourself and you will look because they knew the pervasive realities of anti blackness and that that was coming. And that was going to be a regular thing. And really just sort of normalizing black girlhood was so deeply rooted in my upbringing, right? I learned the beauty and brilliance and boldness of the people who look like me. And so if I enroll people in just some of the listening and the storytelling, that my stories, then I invite folks to pause and reflect on some of the dynamics of what they were taught about blackness, and how young you can go, I invite everybody, everybody to take a moment. I invite people to write sometimes to think and sometimes it's a three minute exercise, what were you taught? How young, can you go? Very specifically, what are you talking about blackness, and black people engage in this exercise with me, right. And so folks go through their journey individually, privately, right, again, a self study, but that is done in a collective. And then that gives us an opportunity after a few exercises like that, and in that realm, some storytelling, some laughter, a few songs, everything's got some call and response for me, it's always you know, I, we have a song that helps to teach about interrupting anti blackness, a whole bunch of different songs, letting ourselves learn and not staying stuck. The teaching always comes with a rhythm, I always hear music. So there's a joy that comes with inviting folks to reflect on what they've been taught, and then rooted in it a deep connection to unlearning, and the permission that we can give ourselves to educate ourselves, right. But then I give tons of examples of the ways in which very small children are doing this work, and oftentimes far better than most adults, as I love us. And I honor us to have that beginner's mind that like, you know, that pre K welcoming of depth of possibility, which is the radical, vulnerable journey that I folks to take with me,


oh, yes, the way you describe that, it's funny, you said the word joy, just as I was thinking to myself, gosh, this is so joyful, and you just took the words right out of my head. Because when many people enter this work, it is, again, using that lens of, Okay, we're gonna be vulnerable. Now, this is going to be a little scary, this is going to be confronting and the way that you describe how you approach this is so joyful because healing and learning and unlearning, and unpacking doesn't have to be heavy, there are places that we can go where it can be safe to feel very significant emotions about this. And that's, that's a perfectly normal part of this process. And it can also be joyful. Oh, absolutely


joyful.


So I would love to know a little bit about some of these examples that you were sharing about some of the things that come up, you said you had some stories about what this looks like in practice, I would love to know, what does this look like? Yeah, so I


teach a lesson that I've been teaching for years. And it's known in certain sectors of our community as 100%. Human lesson, right? So I teach this and I, and I think the reason why it shocks systems for folks is the range of ages, young people who will be in the audience and the different things that they do with it, like the tools. So with 100% Human lesson I teach about teaching, I teach that as young people are looking at this Black Lives Matter sign, right? These signs were all over Africa, and for so long, and nobody was really talking to kids. So folks are like asking for help, like, how do you talk to, and we do it through our program. In the summertime, it's called come up. It's a performing arts youth program, where it's the date sample, this is like the living laboratory that I share through radical vulnerability, because in real talk the community the entire community is my classroom. Indeed, in reflecting all these signs all over the place and working with children, especially really small children who are just learning their colors, right? They have a lot of them are shocked when we start talking about colors and skin and navigating and naming like this black, like who is talking to these kids, so find them like you know what, I got it. And I have a whole audience of like 150 and 60 kids of all kinds of ages. I'm like, what color is my turtleneck? And they're like, oh, what colors are like black? And like what color is my skin? You know, and what some are like, Wait, I don't want to get this wrong. And this is a mix of range, which is why babies work with Asian babies. Some of them are indigenous babies, like a good mix of human beings predominantly black, but looking at some trying to figure out like Unlike so you hear Dr. Nia call herself a black woman in this ground skin? Is anyone confused? Anyone have questions? Right. And in some you can see there's like this, oh, wait a minute, finally we're gonna have this conversation. And so then I go on to talk about larger social structures that have led us in language to acknowledge our African ancestry, people of African descent, this categorization of black and then some of the things that we've done with titles and names and terms. And that's how I identify you won't often hear me say African American, you'll hear me identify myself as a black woman. So being able to create space, even with little people to explore language and how language shifts and how language Yes, can be derogatory. But what are we doing with it and unpacking and boom, they are capable. They're above and beyond capable, right? So we deal with the Black Lives Matter sign, right, and the concept. And what I say is that, you know, it's everyone should be loved and fed and read to and yes, each and every one of us, right, we all deserve the you know, we go on about our humanity. And I communicate that the the sign as many of us teach is not communicating that black lives are the only lives that matter. But it's communicating that there is a very specific human story, and history to name and be with. And so I tell them, the story goes like this, I say, once upon a time, why people and people of European descent were taught a lesson. That was not true. White people and people of European descent were taught that black people and people of African descent are three bits of a human being closer to that of a monkey than that of a human white person like this was in research and publications and justification for bondage for hundreds and hundreds of years science research professors justifying this concept as that I say it was uncomfortable giggle like for just like, for real. So we of course, today are still dealing with the residue of this left thing. And there are ways in which is still being taught. So I offer the babies. Are you interested in teaching something new? And they say yes, they can please. I said, Well, let's teach something new. When I say 100% You say human, I say I am 100%. They say you are 100% human, and we are 100% human. And that's the pre K lesson that a whole bunch of people never got. And so that simple. 100% human drama ties ation that I get into has landed and lasted and shown up in classrooms and conversations and settings led by little people who've experienced it. One example. I get a call from one of our white families a white father, he reached out and he had a little boy, I'll call I'll call him Arlo. And Arlo was six with us. And I don't know if you remember h&m When h&m Put that beautiful little black boy in a green sweatshirt that said coolest monkey of the jungle. And so h&m got a whole you know, flak about like, racist, it was a bubble and all the adults, right? All the grown ups were like, Why is everything gotta be about race, like, you know, the mother supported it. And some people were even like, monkeys are great, right? Like all of these things, just sort of the discomfort and sort of the protecting of the depth of racism associated with putting this little black boy in this monkey sweatshirt. So this white father calls me, my little friend, we're gonna call him Arlo six, maybe had just turned seven had the 100% human lesson, did summer with us with black consciousness work. He looked at an image of that little let you know, and the whole thing around charging at h&m. And he points at it. And he goes, I know the route. So why that's racist. Oh, wow. Right? Meanwhile, you got adults just protecting monkeys are great, or what's the big deal? It's just a sweatshirt Bob. But this baby who's learn the process of learning, who's learned that people are taught certain concepts that then impact our entire social structure. He knew he knew the detrimental realities of associating this little black boy with a monkey all the way to the point where he could even talk about mass incarceration, and the relevance, and he was seven. So no little white boy, like so. So it's like so all of this sort of argument about what kids are capable of and what didn't always grownups. Matt need sort of a rebirth. And it's like, let the babies teach us. Let the baby teach us and so there are stories like that. At that, just like the ways in which when children are given certain tools, or even certain songs, or even slogans, and how they use them, how they bring them to life, and present them in a way that encourage or even force, a different level of thinking, and that's what radical vulnerabilities


about? Well, and that's generational change.


And that's it. And that's it, as we understand our racialized realities. One, we know the history. And we know like, the social sort of evolution of these categories and identities, and particularly whiteness, and learning and understanding this sort of moldable concept and even made up concept. It's like, Let's make something else. Like what's possible? what's possible in exercising these identities if there's so multiple, right, just encouraging folks to do something different with it. Yeah,


that is so powerful, and obviously tying right into your work with anti racist and abolitionist work in the classroom. This is something that is your work right now in Ithaca, which, of course, that was my alma mater, to a good college. And so where else are you bringing this work? Yeah, all


over again, thanks for asking, well, the words getting out the buzz. In some especially like, and particularly around a lot of the rural communities around here, too. And just folks that are trying to navigate language and navigate it and how to interrupt or how to teach or how to nurture. So I'm receiving invitations that I see as invitations to help acknowledge and even work towards transforming the culture of how some folks are treating each other in a space. And then I would say that I've been able to do quite a bit of speaking a few places to so speaking in more higher education settings, I'll be at Wells college soon, but also work with programs like it's called CSTEP. And it's a science and technology and engineering program through Cornell. And so I was able to do some workshops for the larger entity with that company. So I ended up saying my audience is across the board. So like I said, during Black Lives Matter at school week, I was in schools, kindergarten through fifth grade than the middle school, and then two sections of Ithaca high school so that they could fill the coop auditorium twice. And it's the same, I mean, I might be a little bit bigger with a five year olds, but really, it's the same. And so that's yeah, there's this proof, this itty bitty pre K through 12 grade in terms of youth, but then I very much have an adult audience. And that's been beautiful to come in spaces, especially workspaces. You know, doing organization orientations for organizations are I've come in when there's like a little problem solving that was needed, because like, folks aren't healthy with each other, they're not being amazing to each other. Now, I am in the underneath the category, often of dei work, but I would argue that it's the foundation of it. Yes, it's very much a black consciousness round. And I help people shift culture in a major way. And the sense of belonging that is possible in their space. It's almost like once you have this radical of radically vulnerable experience, there's this different level of awareness, and even just processing how you enter spaces, inviting people to be researchers, and psychologists have their own journey regularly, like the data of your lives, like what happened when you walked in, but I do I find space, wherever.

Yeah, well. And I guess one of the reasons why I ask is, because everything is just so politicized right now. And there is so much resistance. And so part of the reason why I even just do this podcast is to elevate voices and to inspire some sort of motion forward. So for the folks who might be listening right now, I'd love for you who were listening right now is world talk about where to find Dr. Nia in a minute, but really go seek her I could really have this conversation with you for another few hours. And I know we can't because we have to wrap up this podcast. But this work is just it's too important to just listen to this podcast and be like, Oh, that was nice, and then put it away. Like this is really the time for some sort of forward motion. Even if that forward motion is I'm going to do the introspective work myself.


That's it. Exactly. And I would say that the two of us combined, we offer a different space because we're nurturing and encouraging teachers to say you are capable, you are above and beyond aren't capable of doing this work, you can do it and it requires. In some cases, I'm be a little corny and have a segue into some poetry that I'll offer folks to check out. But a deep breath. A lot of my work involves taking a moment and breathing together. How often are you starting your classrooms, even if it's 30 seconds, 60 seconds, close your eyes and breathe together, just take a breath. So deep breath is also a poem that I've written. And I have like a bit of a video associated with it. So you can look up me a nun deep breath, it's eight minutes long. But it's also a piece of the highlights a lot of what we talked about, you know, I will say the first part is called Loving revolution in these new white people. And part two is called Loving blackness religiously. And then part three is called Loving thyself radically. And so I write dissertation poems. But heads up, it's long. It's about eight minutes. So wait till you have time to check it out. For real?


Yes, yes, definitely. And so we'll let me continue on this way. And then I'll ask you the last question. I mean, all these links will be in the show notes will be so easy for people to get in touch. How else can people get in touch with you and your work?


Yes, yes. Well, on my website is Dr. Knee and.com is a great way to look me up and then that will link you to my email greetings at Dr. Nia nan.com. Otherwise, there is a come up see you MEP Ithaka Youtube Channel to check me out in action and some of the work that is happening on the the community scale, they I go there to show off elements when I'm doing anything with radical vulnerability and to keep your eyes and ears wide open. Because the idea is to be able to provide blueprints, right, this work is replicable. And so I am just continuing to strengthen my ability to name the tool and the pieces of the tool so that they can be shared. I tell all of my these are gifts for our future teachers and current teachers and parents and human beings dealing with human beings, is really what this work is all about. Just positions us to bring our whole selves very differently. Yeah, the website. I'm also on Instagram, I am CCC, I think I'm all excited because I'm newly on Instagram as in, like a year or so. But at Dr. Nina and just follow up following me there and engaging is another method. And yes, I have the Facebook still and still I definitely do. And my children always let me know with a nice little giggle, but I'm with it. So let that be another place to stay to reach out or to get connected. But anything Doctor Nia none


fantastic. And so I need to ask this last question and beautiful tie into the last piece of what you were saying is what is your big dream for the future of education?


Man, I mean, the most massive dream slash daily practice is helping all of us all our young people, particularly to just to know their value, to see their value and to taste it throughout a really authentic like Liberated Learning experience that's ongoing. It's everlasting, but if it could start in the womb on with it, and with it.


Yes. I love that. More of that. Yeah, we want more of that everyone to know their value, man. What would that world look like?


Oh, my goodness. Can you imagine? How much that was? Like, just like, interrupt


stuff. I'm getting off for cleanse again, Nia. But that's it, right? That's the vision. That's the work that you do the work that I do. You know, we plant seeds in the hopes that one day, this is the world that will exist. So thank you so much for your time and your brilliance and your enthusiasm and joy. It's such a pleasure to talk with you about the work that you do. Thank you.


Well, thank you for the space this container that is just love it. Love it. It's beautiful.


Thank you. And so if you loved today's episode, which I know you did, go ahead and subscribe. Please share it with a friends take some action today. And we'll see you next time on take notes. Incredible, right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at empowered educator faculty room on Facebook.

What does it take to bounce back from a traumatic event? How do you thrive and survive the toxic stress and trauma?
As educators, we often see certain behaviors that can be barriers to success for some students. And the ultimate goal is to help them get past these conflicts and challenges by encouraging them to focus on their future and success.
But most of the time, what our students need is a safe space and adults who will listen and try to understand what they’re going through.
Welcome to episode 31 of Take Notes with Jen Rafferty! In this episode, I’m speaking with Renee Hettich. She is an author, licensed master social worker, and trainer on topics such as resiliency and therapeutic parenting.
Renee opens the conversation about adverse childhood experiences and how they can affect the child’s mindset and behavior long term.
Understanding your student’s behavior is essential to their success. The truth is, we don’t know what each student is going through, but the best we can do is to learn more about how we can help them.
Tune in and find out how you can help your student understand their feelings better!

Stay empowered,
Jen

Let’s keep the conversation going! Find me at:
 Jen Rafferty | Instagram, YouTube, Facebook | Linktree
Instagram: @jenrafferty_
Facebook: Empowered Educator Faculty
Room
About Renee:
Renee has been parenting children from adverse histories for over twenty-six years as a foster, adoptive, and kinship parent. She is currently parenting four children who joined her family through inter-country adoption. She cares for children with special medical, learning, developmental, and mental health needs.
Renee has worked in the field of adoption and foster care since 2004 as an adoption social worker and program director supporting families adopting domestically and internationally. In 2017, she joined the Adoptive and Foster Family Coalition as program director. She is dedicated to the well-being of adoptive, foster, and kinships families. She is proud to lead a team of experts who support adoptive and guardianship families in eight counties.
Renee has published articles in Adoption Today and Adoptive Families (national adoption magazines). She is the author of the book My Kids Know More Than Me! 15 Life Lessons from Foster and Adopted Children. Renee is also a trainer on the topics of adverse childhood experiences, the adaptation of the brain from toxic stress and trauma, resiliency, and therapeutic parenting. She has also been featured on radio and podcast broadcasts in regard to parenting children with traumatic histories and with mental health challenges. Renee earned a Master of Social Work degree from Marywood University and has been a Licensed Master Social Worker since 2005. She also holds a Master’s Degree in Audiology from the University of Pittsburgh and a Bachelor’s Degree in Speech/Language Pathology from Ithaca College.
www.Affcny.org

TRANSCRIPT:  April is National Child Abuse Prevention Month in an effort to recognize the importance of families and communities working together to prevent child abuse and neglect. So today I invited Renee headache Program Director of the adoptive and foster family coalition of New York State to talk with me about how we as educators can shift the way we create safe spaces in schools for all children, and even the way we think about safe spaces. Because when we start to look at behaviors as clues, we can begin to uncover what's actually happening beneath the surface and start to understand what a child might need to be successful, which isn't always what we think it is. This is a really important episode. And we talked about some topics that might be triggering for you as a listener. So please, please take care of yourself and let's take care of each other.


Remember all the passion and vision you had when you first went into teaching. Feeling like building young minds and creating community through your work would make a lasting impact on this world? Well, those days may feel like they're behind you now because you're exhausted, stressed and overwhelmed and frustrated. But I'm here to tell you, it doesn't have to be like this. In fact, the love of teaching never really went away. But it absolutely needs transformation. Welcome to The Take notes Podcast. I'm Jen Rafferty, former music teacher, mom of two, and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, and I'm here to light the way for you. In order to create a generational change for our kids. We need to shift the paradigm away from the perpetual stress and overwhelm and into a life of joy, and fulfillment. This is education 2.0, where you become the priority, shift how you live your life, and how you show up both at work, and at home. So take a sip of steamy morning coffee, and grab your notebook. It's time to take notes. Hello and welcome to another fantastic episode of take notes. I'm really excited to introduce you to my guest today. This is Renee haddock, who has worked in the field of adoption and foster care since 2004 as an adoption social worker and program director supporting families adopting domestically and internationally, and in 2017, she joined the adoptive and foster family coalition of New York State as program director and is dedicated to the well being of adoptive Foster and kinship families. Renee has published articles in the National Adoption magazine adoption today and adoptive families, and she is the author of the book My kids know more than me 15 life lessons from foster and adopted children. Renee has been a Licensed Master social worker since 2005. And has been parenting children from adverse histories for over 26 years as a foster adoptive and kinship parent. She is currently parenting for children who joined her family through inter country adoption and cares for children with special medical learning, developmental and mental health needs. And Renee, I am so happy that you joined me today to have this conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. So I'd love to just dive right into some of the heart of where a lot of this work comes from. And that's aces. So let's talk about what are aces and why are we needing to talk about them? Thanks, Jen. So aces stands for adverse childhood experiences. And those are experiences that create toxic stress and trauma, that then impacts long term on a child's ability to regulate a child's social emotional health, a child's physical health and a child's learning capacities today and throughout their adulthood. over 20 years ago, two researchers came together, and we're looking at what adversity in childhood could be potentially linked or correlated with long term health outcomes that were poor than those of us who don't experience adversity. And what those researchers found 20 years ago was there was 10 major components of early childhood experiences that then created these stressors that that impacted on lifelong well being. And those 10 factors are physical, emotional and sexual abuse, physical and emotional neglect, substance use in the family, mental illness in the family, incarceration in the family, substance use disorders in the family and divorce. So those were the attend original adverse childhood experiences that could be proven to have impact and developmental outcomes, learning outcomes, health outcomes and social outcomes. So thank you for laying all of those 10 out that's something that we as teachers especially see the effects of this happening, but don't fully understand what's going on underneath the surface. So those aces in that list that you rattled off there, it gives us a little bit of a roadmap, I would say right to kind of discovering well.


What's actually happening here with this child? Is that an accurate description of that? Right? It gives you some knowledge, right. And before I step into that, I do want to go back and just say, those were the 10 original aces that experiences based on that research. What we now know is any event or things that have happened in childhood that create what we call toxic stress. Toxic stress is a stressor in a child's life that changes the way their body and their mind respond in the presence of no buffer. So there are other things in this 10 originals that can create toxic stress. For example, bullying in school can cause toxic stress in the child of racism can cause toxic stress and a child institutional care whether it's an orphanage from a foreign country, or a group home here, right? hospitalization, death of a parent. So there's other factors other than the top 10 That can create stress to the point where it changes the neurobiology of the child, and thus, changes the way they learn changes the way they behave. And that's what you're seeing in your classrooms. Yeah. Can you explain the difference between just run of the mill stress, I'm having a bad day, and I'm feeling kind of frustrated? And what toxic stress really is? Yeah, that's a great question. We classify it three ways. Number one we classify as trauma, right? Trauma is an event that creates the feelings of life or death, that's a trauma, right? Then there's toxic stress, toxic stress is a stressor that changes the way the body and the mind respond, right. And I'm going to go in depth about that. So hold on to that for a minute. And then tolerable stress is the third category of stress and tolerable stress is important for our development, right, we need to have those stressors to learn and move forward. But it has to be tolerable something that your body and your mind can handle cope with and move forward on. So go back to the middle, right, that toxic stress part. So toxic stress actually changes the body of the mind. It creates so much stress hormone in your body, the stress hormones of adrenaline and cortisol, right? It's an overproduction of adrenaline and cortisol in your system. Again, the sympathetic nervous system responsible to respond to stress has been overtaxed to the point where it changes itself. So we have a sympathetic nervous system that's responsible to respond to stress. And when it's continually being used, we're constantly in that stress mode. And that sympathetic nervous system has been viewed over and over and over again, it's then changes, the nervous system actually changes as a result of that long term, ongoing, intolerable stressor. So what kind of ways does this sympathetic nervous system change? How can we identify maybe what that looks like? How does it manifest? So let's talk first about the neurobiology of what happens. So as that child is continually in that environment of toxic stress, and adrenaline and cortisol in the sympathetic nervous system around overload, what happens is a few things. The first thing is the part of the brain that's responsible for threat response and stress response is in the middle part of your brain, the major structure is the amygdala. The more we use that amygdala, the more we use that part of this central nervous system, the larger and more active it becomes. So just like when you exercise and you're using muscle, the muscle gets bigger and stronger. The same with the midbrain or that amygdala, that structure in the midbrain gets bigger and stronger and more active. So what research has shown us is for those kids who've had trauma and toxic stress, and childhood that that structure in the brain, which is part of the sympathetic nervous system is bigger and more active, which means that these kids are constantly in that stress response. Because their brain is constantly monitoring threats, right? It's the response center distress and it's constantly being activated. So these are the kids you quite often see what we call go into fight, flight, or freeze mode in your classroom. It's the kid who's tripping over the desk is the kid who's hitting other kids is the kid who flays out the back door is also the kid or the student who sits in the back of the room, completely in an unengaged and withdraw. And then reality the kids who are fighting and fighting are less of a concern than the kids are those kids who are


freezing or withdrawing, as they had actually more serious attic access, it has a toxic stress. For teachers, sometimes it's easier to handle the withdrawal on trial than the child who is picking a fight or throwing things or tipping over desks. But in reality, the child that's withdrawn is actually the more concerning child of the two of them. But overall, those kids typically go into fight, flight and freeze. Because that amygdala, that sympathetic nervous system, that threat response system, the fear center, the brain is overactive. So that's really interesting, especially that you said that the kids who are in freeze usually have those higher responses to stress, or there's a higher level of toxic stress, because as a teacher, it's very easy for those kids to kind of slip through the cracks, right? Because they're not the ones making all the noise and grabbing your attention. And I can think back and I remember kids like that, where they would go through my class. And then a year later, two years later, things would come out that this child was having very, very serious trauma at home, but they were great for me, you know, it's like one of those things, right, you know, it's slips through. So I'm really glad that you said that, and kind of underscore the importance of noticing those kids too. I want to talk for a second about the word trauma. Because I think now especially as trauma informed practices are becoming just more available and more people are starting to understand them. I also think that there's a misconception about what that word trauma actually means. And it's a lot bigger and heavier than what it actually is. Can you talk a little bit about just like what trauma said, you know, trauma is anytime that we are responding to life or death. But it's sneaky, isn't it? So can you talk about the word trauma and really what it actually means? You know, and I must say that, depending on who you talk to, it's going to be a different definition, to be honest, because I think in our area of the practice, we talk about trauma. All right, we talked about toxic stress, and we talked about tolerable stress, and it's a spectrum. Trauma is when there is an event or a series of event that causes, again, that sympathetic nervous system to go awry. And the child truly does fear for their safety, right and their well being. And it can be anything from a car accident, to a home fire, to abuse and neglect, right? It can be many, many things, but it's an event or series of events that truly causes that child to be in their fear brain and worry about their well being. Sure. And sometimes that fear can be subconscious. Right? So I guess I'm wondering if that that fear can be subconscious in a way that you are going about the situation and not consciously aware of I'm in danger right now. Yeah. So there's two facets to that check. One is children who have a history of adversity, toxic stress, and trauma, I put all those together, their fear center, their brain is overactive, right, that amygdala, that sympathetic nervous system is overactive. And because of that, even when they're in what we consider a safe environment, they don't feel safe. So you may feel your classroom as a safe place. That doesn't mean the child feels safe there. I have many children who, including my own kinship and foster children, who would sit in the last chair in the last row next to the door, because they were constantly afraid. And they needed number one to see everything in front of them. So nobody would sneak up behind them. And they could escape out that backdoor, right out that classroom door because they are truly interfere brain and may think your classroom is safe. That doesn't mean that they do. I'm so glad you said that. And use that example, because so many times we want to create safe spaces, we'll even say this is a safe space. But just saying this is a safe space doesn't actually create safe spaces. And unless you're actually getting to know what makes a safe space for each individual student, there is no way that you could possibly create actual safe spaces. And this comes along with a lot of what you teach and share with other schools and organizations about these trauma informed practices. So you know, can you talk a little bit more about what that could actually look like in a classroom setting? Yeah, and it's interesting that I think the safe space idea has merit, but you're absolutely right. Every child was going to feel safe in a different way. And it's how that child feels safe, called felt safety. How do they feel safe? And the only way you're going to know that is if you ask the question without judgment, right? Because I think often times if someone's giving you an answer, and you're like, oh, that's ridiculous. Well then that judgment is actually prevent


During that safe space, it's actually adding to the fact that it's not a safe space for this particular child. Yep. And every child's answer is going to be dip. And it's usually not the answer we expect. So for example, I had a foster child who was in my kitchen, just jump in literally jumping chair to chair all over the place and just couldn't settle. And I asked, I said, Coach, what's going on? And he said, I'm afraid, I'm afraid to be in the kitchen at night, because they have a glass back door that you can see the backyard. And he was convinced somebody was going to come through the backyard and shoot him. So as an adult, my thought was, well, I'll leave the light on. So you can say, No, that was really going to upset him. So instead, I said, Help me understand how you need to do will feel safe in our kitchen. What can I do to make sure you feel safe? And she made the plan, they said, I need a curtain on that window. Now for my adult point of view, I like well, then you can't see anybody come in with that make you scared her at night. For him. That's what he needed was the curtain on the back door. We went out to dry fabrics bought fabrics he and I made it for and then we put it up, and he now felt safe in the kitchen. Right? So you've got to figure out what helps them feel safe, not what you think they're gonna feel safe around. It's how they feel safe is so important. Yeah. I'm glad that you even shared that example. Because, like you said, times, where what you think, is actually not what the kids need? And I wonder how often kids are actually asked that question. Yeah, I think very rarely, I think we presume as adults that we know best. And we're going to make that decision. And because you don't know where their fear is generating from, there's no way for you to be able to answer that without asking them. And I would say even my littlest kid, I was even my preschoolers, I shut down and chit chat with them, they can tell me very clearly, this is scary for me. I need this very clearly, I, the little girl who would not step foot into the gym, just wouldn't do it. And so I sat down with her, she was four years old, and we chit chatted about it. And she said, Well, what's so scary about the gym is the gym teacher keeps blowing his whistle. And that really scares me. So the gym teacher stopped blowing his whistle. And she was very happy to go into the gym and happy. So it's finding what is the root cause of the behavior? Right? Avoidance of PE, she was afraid. Okay, now that I know you're afraid, what are you afraid of? And how can we remedy that for you? Well, and I think so many times, we just look at the behavior, and then we stop there. And I think a lot of that has to do with our lack of training, right? I mean, as teachers in the classroom, we are trained in pedagogy, we are trained in content, we have a beautiful philosophy about why we want to be there and how we're going to do all the things and all that's great. But if we are just able to see behavior, and then try to mitigate the behavior, we're not actually fixing anything, and sometimes we're making things worse. And so these trauma informed practices are not just going to make your students lives so much better for for a learning scenario, or create the environment for them to thrive. But you as the adult in the room, you're going to have a much better experience and deeper connection with these kids, because you're reaching now, towards a level of understanding that you didn't quite have before. Well, Jamie covered a lot of ground in that celebrity kind of go back to a couple of those things. Even my puppy has trauma. And we're working with a puppy therapist, that's because of the puppies trauma. Hey, got it, I got it. The therapist is talking to me. I'm like, she's like, What do you do? I'm like, well actually work with traumatized children. So you know, you sent a lot in that. So let me just unpack a couple of things. First, you're absolutely right. In terms of I think, teachers and parents, right, because I work with parents that you look at the observable behavior, right? It's the child is withdrawn? Or is the child who's belligerent? Or is the child refuses to work? It's the child who can't come to school is the child who's throwing does whatever it is, right? They look at that surface behavior. And in trauma responsive strategies, you don't look at the surface behavior. That's a symptom,


right of a neurological biological change to that trial. It's only a symptom and you've got to then dig deep and figure out why is that behavior happening? And you treat the walk, right. And I always use the analogy of, you know, if you go to the doctor and you say, I have a cough, the doctor could easily give you cough medicine, you could go home, the cough would slow down for a desire to write but it's still going to be there and it's going to get worse. So you go back to the doctor and say, Well, I'm still coughing right. And once the doctor finds the root cause of that copying what


to, let's say as pneumonia, they treat the pneumonia and the cough stops. Same idea, right? Look at that child's behavior as a symptom of an underlying neurobiological condition, find out what it is, treat that. That's what's key. You don't treat the behavior. And you're absolutely right, Jen, because quite often, particularly when I look at behavior intervention plans, right? A treatment of behavior where you're trying to modify or manage that behavior. And for a lot of kids of trauma, toxic stress and adversity, when you try to manage or change the behavior, it makes it worse, right? So if you put a sticker chart, for example, to try to change that behavior, and reality, and quite often it will backfire. And it will make the behavior worse, right? And there's lots of reasons for that. But for this conversation, right, because you're not trading the underlying costs. Those, unfortunately, are some of the only tools that we have. So I think in an effort to help, it's all well intended. But like you said, at the end of the day, we're actually making things worse by just focusing on the end, look, we've all done this, right? With the sticker charts, the incentive plans, the hang out with me at lunch, whatever. And it doesn't work, like you said, because we're not actually getting to the root of the problem. But again, we don't necessarily have the wherewithal to even know what questions to ask, which is why it's so important that we have this conversation. And we connect with people like you and folks who do the work that you do. We need to connect, we need to be able to bridge the gap between your work and what is actually happening in the classroom. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And you know, when we sit down and work with teachers, and we dig below the surface, and pass the behavior, most teachers are like, Oh my God, right? It's like that aha moment for the teacher like, oh, my gosh, I get it now. Right? I understand why this child is doing X, Y, and Z. And then we strategize about how do we treat and heal the child, because that's what it's about, right? The toxic stress and the adversity created neurobiological changes to the child's brain and body. And our job is to heal that. And as that heals those symptoms, those behaviors will dissipate. But you've got to heal from the inside out, versus trying to impose behavioral plans on a child was coming to you with a neurological difference. Yeah, I also think kind of zooming out a little bit, too, you know, and you and I have talked about this before, it's not as if you turn 18, and all of your aces go away. Our experiences of how we operate in this world, throughout our days in our relationships is a direct result of our lived experiences. And some of us have gone through adverse childhood experiences of our own. So as the adults in these spaces interacting with a child who is navigating their own trauma, or toxic stress can also be very triggering for the adults in these spaces. Can we talk a little bit about that too? Absolutely. It's you have your own personal history of adversity, trauma and toxic stress. And then you're in a room with a child who has that same history or similar history, it's going to be very difficult for both of you. Here's a couple of reasons why. And then we have to go back to neuroscience for just a minute leads. Let's see, you're speaking my language. I love it. So two things to know. And then I'll explain why it's so difficult when you have your own personal history. So we have in our brain something called mirror neurons, right? So gently, if you yawn, yawn, I stick my tongue out the two month all babies gonna stick their tongue back out at me, right? So we mirror each other. Number one, number two, we also have something called entrainment where we try to sync up with everyone else. So when you're in that football stadium, and the wave goes by, right, there's a reason that works. It works because we're all trying to sync up with one another. So entrainment, and mirror neurons are the core piece a piece of not at the core, but a piece of why when you have your own personal history in here, then it's supporting a child of that history that each of you are struggling, right? Because as the child escalates, you're gonna escalate, right? You're gonna mirror the child, you're gonna sync up with the child. As you escalate, the child's gonna escalate. Right? So you kind of bring each other along for the ride. Number two kids who have this history, right, have some challenging academic and behavioral needs. And that can be very triggering. So just like kids are triggered by whatever and we will I want to come back to that Jen, if we can cheer Sal


Are you? If a child does something that then takes you back to your moment of toxic stress and trauma, you're going to have a stress response, which is then going to elevate the student stress response. So really understanding your own personal history and acknowledging your own triggers. And being self aware is critical. Because if you are not a regulated adult, you cannot regulate a child. Can you say that again? For the people in the back? Right? Well, if you're not grounded, calm, and regulated, you cannot that help a child regularly, you just can't do it. And some of it's because of entrainment and mirror neurons. If you're escalated, the child's gonna escalate. And it's not gonna matter what you do to intervene if you're escalated. So well that, right? It's like yelling at somebody to calm down, calm down, it doesn't work. In reality, when you have an escalated child, most times, I'd say 99% of the time, engaging them verbally, will not deescalate them as a matter of fact, it will escalate them. So 99% de escalation techniques are nonverbal. Say more. I love where this is going. And when you're in an escalated state, and we haven't gotten into that neurobiology, but when you're in an escalated state, the part of your brain that's thinking brain, and the communication brain isn't working, because your fear brain takes over. So that's why de escalation techniques overwhelmingly, do not include language, they're completely nonverbal. I also want to say a point that I think it's really interesting, Jen, there's new research out where they tested the teachers cortisol level, remember, cortisol is a stress hormone. And then they tested the students in that classrooms, cortisol levels, and what they found is if the teachers cortisol level was elevated, so were all of the students in the classroom, at the teachers cortisol level was not escalated. Same for the students in the classroom. That's how powerful this is, right? You as a teacher need to be regulated and well, to teach parents. Absolutely. And like I always say that the well being of a school is dependent on the well being of its educators. And a big piece of your well being is being able to be self aware enough to know when you're activated, or you're triggered. And then it's not just enough to know, you know, it's fine that you know, but that is not enough, you need to have the tools to actively regulate yourself in the moment. So you can show up for these kids and actually be your best self to do your job and hold space for them when they need you the most. Because these kids need you and they need you at your best, such good stuff here. And I just love all the brain talks. So thank you so much for all of that. And I do just want to say one more thing, too, that we haven't touched on this word, per se. But it's been a theme throughout our entire conversation is this idea of curiosity, right? Ask questions, the more you ask, the more you know. And when we come into these situations, and we project our own lived experiences, we project our own beliefs, our own values onto whatever's happening, we're actually missing the mark, we're not actually able to meet the moment in a way that's meaningful, because it becomes about us. And in fact, it's never about you. And having that mindset of curiosity, I think is essential for all of this. Oh, absolutely. And I'm glad you brought that up, because you are the investigator, right? You're the one who's going to be thinking through, you know, what do these symptoms mean? Right? And you have to be curious, and ask the child as the expert, right? The expert is the child. I think quite often we as professionals sit around a table and believe that we are the expert on this particular student. No, we're not. Right, the student is their own expert. And be curious, ask those questions. And not only can they give you amazing answers, but the fact that you are curious enough and you cared enough about this child to ask because quite often what I hear from my children and the children that I serve, is they're like, people do things to us and for us, but they never ask us and we feel very dismissed and unheard and that Curiosity will allow them to be heard, be validated, be understood, and give you the information that you need to then help the child heal. Our kids are amazing and fascinating. And it's it's a insincere curiosity where you use open ended questions, write open ended questions mean they don't get answered by yes, no good or bad. So they really have a voice and really can be heard and you can really have a good understanding


in what's happening, this particular student, what a difference that simple thing makes, just asking and being curious. Yeah, it's empowering. It's empowering for you. Because you can just like, set the thing down that makes you feel like you need to know everything. So you just you just sit that one down, because you don't need to carry that one anymore. And it also is empowering for the person you're talking to. Because like you said, it gives them a platform to use their voice, many of whom these kids like haven't had a chance or an opportunity to use their voice in a meaningful way. So what a beautiful opportunity that you have to give these kids. When the situation arises, which I think is all the time, it's always a good time to ask a question. We don't have to wait for something to happen. We can just ask them now. Oh, I love this. And ask them how they're regulated. Don't ask them when they're escalated. If it's the one that regulated, right, right, because it's like you can't teach someone who's drowning how to swim. Like, we need to do this when there's actually nothing happening. And I just have to say, before we move on to the last question of our interview today, is that this idea of safe space of really asking what do you need to feel safe? I think there's a beautiful universal question that doesn't have to be saved for the kids in your classroom. This can be for your own children, if you have them, it could be for your partner, it could be for your family, it could be for a co worker situation, because when these problems arise, or conflicts arise, or people are activated, it's coming from a place of fear, and this subconscious trauma response that we're going through. And so when we start to ask questions, and get curious about it, and even ask very openly, you know, what's going to make you feel safe here? I imagine that those conversations are going to be super juicy and interesting. Yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to think of a story to share. But I guess I'm gonna hold back on that story. Yeah, sure. Well, you know, I'll say even just in my partnership with with my partner, that's something that we often ask each other. What do you need right now to feel safe? And sometimes, it's just like, I just need you to tell me that you love me. Sometimes it's like, can you call me in an hour just to like, check in with me, sometimes it's like, you know what, I'm just gonna take a break and breathe for a little bit and go for a walk, and I'll be able to regulate, but being able to articulate that is really important. And I think you made another important point, quite often we'll hear from teachers, you know, we can't do something that that we can't, why are we doing something different for this child? Right? These practices, trauma responsive practices are universal. They're gonna help every child, every student, right? It's not just the child with adversity, toxic stress and trauma, every child is going to benefit from a trauma responsive approach. 100%. And before we go on to your last question, I do want to go back to something that you said. And that was conscious and unconscious memories. So what I can say to you, is, if a child has a conscious memory, your curiosity will get you the answer that you need to help the child heal. Right. So for example, I had a young man who was failing art class, failing our class for two reasons. I'm only going to explain one of them. But he was skipping class, at least twice a week. And of course, the school did in school suspension that they did out of school suspension, of course, he'd never showed up for in school suspension, because of shame, right? So then it just snowballed, right? You don't come to suspension, you get more suspension, you don't come to that suspension, you get more says, all right. And he kept skipping the class. So not only was he skipping the class, now, he was skipping detention right now. He's feeling shame. Finally, I said, Okay, we're done with suspensions. And I sat with him, I said, Help me understand why you're skipping this claps. And he was very eloquent. And he said, that teachers tone of voice is the same tone of voice, a significant person in my household used when they were going to harm me for me. So he was triggered by this teacher's tone of voice, right, which then made him flee, which meant he was skipping class, which meant he was failing art. Once we understood that and stopped punishing him for skipping class and treated the fact that he's being triggered by this voice. She went closer every day, right? And we talked to the teacher she understand she would temperate her tone of voice, but she also gave him a yellow card and said okay, if my tone of voice is triggered, and you put your yellow card up and go to the social workers office, right, he wasn't skipping claps it was just saying hey, and trigger I need a minute so it's digging underneath there asking the question and because he'd had that conscious memory, he could tell that to me right and wait easily worked it through and he doesn't any an art class and a after failing art class three years in a row he needed to graduate and he got an A in that


far, right because of that little tiny thing that we had to figure out was causing fear. So that's an explicit memory. He knew the memory, he knew what was going on, he knew what was causing it. And intrinsic memory, something that you don't recall, can also trigger a child. And then when that happened, you really have to be the investigator and trying to figure it out, right. So I had a little foster guy, he was maybe six years old, and he adored this teacher, and man absolutely adored him, couldn't wait to go to school. He was a second grade, first grader. And then all of a sudden, overnight, he refused to go into the classroom. And he refused to go to school. And we're like, what is going on? And we kind of figure it out. And he could not articulate it. He's like, I don't know, I don't know. I feel afraid. I can't go in and I'm just afraid. And then finally, I worked with his original family and myself, I said, Something's happening here, what's happening, and the original family met the teacher. And the teacher had on an after shave lotion stamp that was the same as this child's abuser. And the teacher had changed his aftershave overnight to a new brand. The new brand was the smell that was triggering this child back to the trauma from somebody else who were the same thing. Once we figure that out, the teacher changed back to his old aftershave lotion, and the kid couldn't wait to go school, you really have to be that curious investigators by figured out as to check out and Charles like, I don't know, I'm just afraid, then you've got a reveal and really figure out what is going on. Because who would have imagined right that the scent of an aftershave lotion was at the core of this child school avoidance issue? And I see that often, Jen, it's usually something that is not accepted. Yeah. Because how could you possibly know, those are so powerful, I'm so glad you've shared those stories, because I feel like it truly highlights again, you don't know what you don't know. And if you are just looking at the behavior, you are not solving problems. And we need to come at this with a sense of genuine curiosity, with separation from ego. Separation from self like this isn't about you. This is really about understanding what this child needs to feel safe. It is always about what do we all need to feel safe, because when students feel safe, they learn when adults feel safe, they can engage, right? And I think safety doesn't get enough street cred. We need to give it some street cred here. Yes, it's important to be kind and to feel empowered, and to have community but at the very root of all of it is safety for every child, but particularly children who have the history of re that trauma, adversity and toxic stresses, because their fear center is on right is jacked up and is constantly constantly on. I had a foster little guy who's fine when he came to me. And just to go back to aces, right? If you take the 10 original aces, he had a score of 10 out of 10, right? It's six years old. And you know, didn't know his numbers, didn't know his letters, couldn't tie a shoe, right? He's six years old was failing out of kindergarten and right, they're gonna repeat in the garden and live out six, central repetitive, he felt safer. And he was doing better at school and the teacher and I asked him, I said, Gosh, you know what made the change, because he went from not being successful in kindergarten to being incredibly successful in kindergarten. And he said, Well, I no longer sit in the classroom, watching the door, afraid that person that hurt me, is going to come get me. She finally felt safe enough in that classroom, to not have to be 24/7 Looking at the door, right? He can actually attend to the teacher. Right? He was a kid who came with an ADHD diagnosis, right? Because he couldn't attend. But he couldn't attend. Because he had to watch the door to keep himself safe so that that person won't comfort him. Right. But that doesn't have to do with ADHD. It had to do. I can't attend to the teacher right now because I have to keep myself safe. Once he felt safe in that classroom. That teacher was phenomenal, by the way, absolutely amazing. She and I spent a lot of time together. She made sure he felt safe and he could attend to the classroom it gets tend to lessen. And he went from unable to complete kindergarten to being the top of his class in kindergarten, right? Because he felt safe for the first time in his life. So I agree safety is so important for these children. And once you provide safety, all of these behaviors that you're trying to manage, aren't going to be there.


You're not going to need to manage them. And quite often I'll hear from teachers as well. They'll say, I don't have time to do trauma responsive strategies. Right? And number one, they don't take time, right? Even the little bit of time that they didn't take, you're going to save hours of behavior management time, because you're not going to need to do that anymore. Yeah, well, anytime someone says, I don't have time, what you're actually saying is that it's not a priority. And when you reframe it like that, all of a sudden now, eyes on you, really, this child's safety isn't a priority. Let's figure this out a little bit differently, please. And I think instead of having these behavior plans, we need to rebrand them as safety plans. Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, whoever intervention plans, I just cringe when I hear that, because that's not what it's about. Yeah, it's the underlying stuff. I would love to continue to have this conversation. And I feel really lucky that we get to have these conversations off air often. But for the purposes of this podcast, I would love for you to tell me what is your dream for the future of education? Yeah, I think that's a great question. So my dream, of course, is for every child to be successful, every child to feel safe, every child should be nurtured. Right, in an educational setting, through trauma responsive strategies that benefit the children I serve, right through adversity and trauma and toxic stress, but for every student 100% of your students. So I really would love to see statewide a trauma responsive approach. Now that, you know, we're working hard to move that agenda forward. For those of you who want to learn more, there is a trauma risk. I don't call trauma responsive. They call it trauma informed. So do you know right, the profession started the last 20 years with trauma informed care, is now moving to trauma responsive, because we want you to do something that just be informed about it is called the trauma informed care network. And Resource Center is a state organization that just kicked off it last month, they are here for apps across entire city in New York, including for educators, are organizations, a part of them? It's a great group of people. So we certainly are available to support school districts, whether it's on a micro level one student at a time, or whether it's on a macro level, where we look at globally, how can we support this school district move toward a more trauma responsive approach to education antastic. And so all of those links are going to be in the show notes. It'll be really easy for people to access that. And again, that is just for New York State. So if there are national organizations, for people who are listening who aren't in New York State, where can they go to get some more information and some support? Great question. So there's really three major national entities that really can provide you support. The first is the National Child Traumatic Stress Network. There's also Harvard University's Center on the Developing Child. They are probably one of the most well known and respected trauma responsive experts in the world. And the third is the Karen Purvis Child Development Institute out of Texas Christian institute that provides primarily parenting for children of trauma, but also provide school support as well. So those are the three major ones National Child Traumatic Stress Network, the Karen Purvis Child Development Institute, and Harvard Center on the Developing Child antastic. And yes, all of those links will be in the show notes too. So it'd be really easy to access them if if you're listening and would like some more information. So Renee, thank you so much for being here for having this really important conversation with me today. Really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please make sure that you subscribe and share with your friends and we'll see you next time on take notes. Incredible, right? Together, we can revolutionize the face of education. It's all possible. And it's all here for you right now. Let's keep the conversation going at empowered educator faculty room on Facebook